This Spotlight Episode of More Like This highlights two documentaries centering on grief and loss with a fictional twist: "Dick Johnson is Dead" and "What Would Sophia Loren Do?"
This Spotlight Episode of More Like This highlights two documentaries centering on grief and loss with a fictional twist. Beginning with Kirsten Johnson’s "Dick Johnson is Dead," Michael Moore questions Johnson about the humorous approach to her father’s looming death and all the ways she incorporated fantasy to share their familial story about dementia. Then, Johnson switches roles to moderate a roundtable for the documentary short "What Would Sophia Loren Do?" The film explores Loren’s external influence on one family’s connection to Italy, grief and cinema. Geralyn White Dreyfous, Robin Honan, Ross Kauffman, Regina K. Scilly and the film’s lead heartthrob and grandmother, Nancy Kulik join in conversation. Sì, grazie!
Krista Smith: Welcome to ‘More Like This,’ a podcast from Netflix Queue, the journal that celebrates the people, ideas and process of creating great entertainment. I'm Krista Smith. I've spent over 20 years interviewing some of the biggest names in Hollywood. And on this show, I'm bringing you fresh new perspectives from across the entertainment industry.
[00:00:21] With the kind of access only Netflix can offer this week. We're shining a spotlight on two documentaries centered around family loss and the unspoken intensity of relationships we form over time, both fervent and emotion, and absolutely delightful to watch. We'll start with ‘Dick Johnson Is Dead.’
[00:00:41] And later on, you'll hear all about ‘What would Sophia Loren Do?’ ‘Dick Johnson is dead, is directed and co-written by Kirsten Johnson who made the film to explore her feelings around her father's journey. As he nears the end of his life, despite plunging headfirst into topics like dementia and mortality, the film is charming, sweet and disarmingly.
[00:01:05] Funny. At times surprisingly raw and deliciously fantastical. It uncannily approaches the face of death with pure joy. Kirsten recently spoke to a fellow with claim documentarian and old friend Michael Moore about the film.
[00:01:26] Michael Moore: Hey everybody. So we're gonna introduce, uh, Kirsten Johnson, the director of this wonderful film.
[00:01:31] I've known Kirsten for a long time. It feels like a long time. Kirsten is obviously, it's not only an incredible documentary filmmaker. Those of us in this business, who've known her forever know her as one of our top cinematographers, documentary cinematographer was just an incredible talented camera person.
[00:01:52] And in fact, four years ago, she made an award winning documentary called ‘Cameraperson,’ where she chose outtakes of many of the films that she has shot. And put it together into this wonderful essay on what is truth what's fiction. What's the difference between truth and nonfiction, the idea of a documentary, but also the idea of being the person in the room and sometimes in very tense situations with a camera and that had been her life.
[00:02:29] Now she has made six or seven documentaries and has been lauded for her fine work as a documentary filmmaker. So, without further ado, let me introduce to you the director and co-writer of Dick Johnson is dead. Kirsten Johnson. Kirsten welcome.
[00:02:48] Kirsten Johnson: Ah Michael. It's so fantastic to see you. I can't even believe it.
[00:02:54] Michael Moore: Yes, no. It's like this, this pandemic feels like it's gone on for 10 years.
[00:03:00] Kirsten Johnson: It really does. And then it makes it feel like 47 lifetimes ago that we worked together for the first.
[00:03:07] Michael Moore: There's so many thoughts. I want to things I want to ask you about from a film from ‘Dick Johnson Is Dead’ and I realized. Some of you, sadly, no fault of your own, didn't end up with good parents or maybe one good parent.
[00:03:22] And so that's a hard thing to deal with always, but you obviously, as you stayed in the film ended up with good parents and I was lucky enough to have that and maybe that, so the idea of losing them it's, it's so awful and it, it. The, I mean, go back to the idea, first of all, in like right when the idea sort of came up in your head, where's the epiphany where you thought of doing this and then you were going to have to.
[00:03:55] Asked your dad to participate. But of course, I think you knew your dad, so you kind of had an idea. He might go along with us.
[00:04:02] Kirsten Johnson: I love to, to keep finding the, the, like go back and go back and go back and keep finding the germ, like the little tiny seedlings of films, because they're sort of like there from the very beginning, but you know, absolutely one of the starts of this film.
[00:04:18] Was a dream I had where I saw a man, I didn't recognize in an open casket and he suddenly sat up and he said, I'm Dick Johnson and I'm not dead yet. And it really, it just was like full blown. Like I feel like I sat up out of bed from the dream of like, like it's going to be too late. Was the, sort of the feeling of it, you know, in that sort of wakeup call kind of a dream space.
[00:04:46] Michael Moore: Right. Wow.
[00:04:46] Kirsten Johnson: Yeah. And it's taken me a while to figure out the man who I didn't recognize of course, was like who my father was becoming because I was not consciously aware of the dementia at that point. But one of the other starting points for this film, Michael is in ‘Cameraperson’ where Nels Bangerter, the brilliant editor who I work with.
[00:05:08] He put together the shot of my mother after the shot of her ashes. And truly, like, I cannot say more truly the first time I saw it, I just had this feeling of like my mom's alive, like just for a second. Hmm. The film tricked me. And then that was just like, Oh, movies do this. Right. They, they, they make us feel like dead people are alive.
[00:05:34] And that I think is one of the, sort of, for me, like a certain level. Why should anybody care about Dick Johnson or that he's dying? Like he was a nice man. He had a good life. He was good. He didn't need a movie, but you know, this is coming from my desperation as a human, but it's also my questioning as a filmmaker of like, what can movies do for us?
[00:05:59] So for me, it was just like, okay, this creative act of like trying to, you know, be defiant towards death and like laugh at dementia and like mess with all of it. Can it show us a way forward? Because like, there's just so much pain and loss and grief and violence, like, and as you know, sometimes humor like breaks things that seem like they can't ever be broken.
[00:06:26] Michael Moore: Well, well, that's the truth. I think you've given a real gift by making this film, because it, this, this issue of losing a parent, a loved one, a child, God forbid, we don't know how to get through it. And you can read all the Kubler-Ross books and the five stages and the whatever. But even though like my dad passed away six years ago, but it feels like six weeks ago.
[00:06:53] And it still does. And, and I realized my mom had died before him, but they both lived into their eighties and nineties, but still when people, you know, probably people came up, you know, I, well, this is the point where spoiler alert time, but amazingly Dick Johnson, isn't dead and
[00:07:13] Kirsten Johnson: he's right here, he’s right here.
[00:07:16] Michael Moore: I, you know, but you know, even though we're friends, I know you, I have avoided this entire year reading anything about this, because I did not want to know--
[00:07:30] Kirsten Johnson: Really?
[00:07:31] Michael Moore: what was -- yes. Can you believe that?
[00:07:33] Kirsten Johnson: Wow.
[00:07:33] Michael Moore: So, anytime I had run across something with your name or whatever, I just go, blah, blah, blah. You know, get it off the screen.
[00:07:38] Kirsten Johnson: You got to go back to…
[00:07:42] Michael Moore: I love the movies so much and I love you. And what you do with film that I didn't want it, I didn't want it wrecked. And, and you had me all the way through, right up until through the ambulance ride. And I'm thinking, how, how? Wow.
[00:08:01] Kirsten Johnson: Hahaha, did I punk you? Did you believe he was really gone?
[00:08:09] Michael Moore: I did
[00:08:10] Kirsten Johnson: Yes. We punked Michael Moore.
[00:08:13] Michael Moore: I totally,
[00:08:15] Kirsten Johnson: I’m very proud.
[00:08:15] Michael Moore: Oh, you did it all the right ways. You put the date on the screen, you know, the documentary style type white type on the black screen.
[00:08:25] Kirsten Johnson: We know our language, we know our language,
[00:08:34] Michael Moore: And then all, and even if you had to shot. During the funeral with your dad up in the choir balcony. Yeah, but I still think you've just imposed him there because it's kind of an, a bright light the way you lit it. Yeah. He's, he's gone, but she's put a shot of him there until it comes to the two of you and being like Huckfinn and Tom Sawyer.
[00:09:04] Wouldn't it be great. If you could sneak into your own funeral and see what people really are saying about you, it's you took this, this classic idea that I think most people, if they were honest have thought about right. And boom, there it is. And then, boom, it's actually true. He's still alive. And he's watching what people would say in his closest friend has a breakdown on the alter.
[00:09:34] Wow. It's interesting that, that I did not start to cry in this film until that happened.
[00:09:43] Kirsten Johnson: Oh, at Ray, when Ray was crying, that's when you cried, because
[00:09:46] Michael Moore: here's the thing. We don't get to pick our parents and we don't get to pick our siblings. We do get to pick our best friends and our partners. And so it's all, it's all choice.
[00:09:58] And so here, this man, his best friend in Seattle, literally having this breakdown. And I started to cry, not thinking about myself, but thinking about one or two best friends of mine, you know, what they would, how they would have to deal with my death. And I wouldn't want them to have to deal with it. Like I I'd rather, they go before.
[00:10:22] Before me, so that, cause I have one, I have one or two friends that, um, would respond the same way and it was so emotionally gut-wrenching.
[00:10:33] Kirsten Johnson: To watch, you know, he's, he's 91 years old and he said like, this is, you know, you, Kirsten may think that this is not real, but this is as real as it gets for me. And you know, this is what I've been struggling with for years, the fear, which one of us was going to go first and now we know.
[00:10:50] Who it is. And then, and they said, well, maybe we don't, maybe I'll drop dead tomorrow.
[00:10:55] Michael Moore: You and I have had this discussion cause especially you as a great cinematographer that especially in a documentary, the important sometimes the most important things are taking place, not directly in front of the ‘Cameraperson’
[00:11:07] And you, you laid this out so well in camera person, but the real story is in the peripheral vision. And so, and I've watched you shoot and I've watched how w how you have one eye in one sometimes, and your other eyes open. And it's not, it's not that your eyes can, the eyes move. And most of us at the same place, but you are keeping that other eye open so that your peripheral vision will catch something that may be happening right over there.
[00:11:34] Kirsten Johnson: Yeah. And that's totally what happened in that situation. You know, there were several different camera people, but they are like trusted and old friends of mine that was John Foster, who, you know, went off book and filmed Ray doing that. And then Nadia Hallgren who, you know, and love, um, who started out as a PA on Fahrenheit 911, my PA getting me water.
[00:11:55] She's the one who came, you know, the shot of my dad walking down the aisle at the end, you know, We hadn't, we hadn't gamed that out at all. And I was back there with my dad and Nadia left her camera, came back around and took the camera from me and then proceeded us down. Yeah. And, and it was all Nadia.
[00:12:16] It's just like the instincts of a camera person in that moment. Michael, I want to say to you, we don't know which one of us is going to die first, but I promise you I will stop when you die. You're the one who taught me, you know, the shot in the film where I put the camera down and it's on the floor when I'm my dad's trying to comfort me because he has dementia.
[00:12:36] You taught me that and you taught me that on Fahrenheit 911, we were going to film in front of the Saudi embassy and we were in the van and I was like talking to someone or something. And you said, turn the camera on. And I, and I remember being like, what are you talking about? We're not even there yet.
[00:12:54] I'm going to have to get out of the car with the camera. And it was like this big, giant camera. And you said, just please turn the camera on. We don't know what's about to happen, but something is about to happen. And in that moment, all of the police cars started coming like the Saudi embassy. Yeah. And I know that, you know, got the camera and like got the focus and yeah.
[00:13:16] I just, it was like, boom, that thing that you said, we don't know what's going to happen, but something's going to happen and we have to be rolling. And what's amazing to me is you both taught me to turn the camera on earlier than I would ever imagine. Yeah, and you turn tall, taught me to keep it rolling much into the fear, into the humiliation, into the, you know, and, and I just really want to credit you for being the person who taught me that.
[00:13:49] Michael Moore: thanks for saying that. I don't know where I learned this, probably just by watching so many movies as a young person, and there are these films I can cite where the director decided to leave. The scene go just one more beat. Let it go. Another two seconds. It made all the difference. And especially in documentary, plus for me, maybe you found this too over the years for your own safety.
[00:14:13] It's a good idea to leave the camera on, especially as the police pull up. Because you may need that as evidence, because they're going to claim you are doing something that you weren't doing. And I thought about you and me a couple of weeks ago when the terrorist mob attacked the Capitol building and we have filmed there.
[00:14:35] You and I, and I've always felt I've never saw the camera as a weapon, as much as I saw it as a protector. A protector, a protector of the truth, the defender of the truth, but also a protector of us to get out of there alive.
[00:14:52] Kirsten Johnson: Well, I mean the, the January 6 events are so deeply complicated on a cinematic and journalistic image level.
[00:15:03] I would really love to do like a breakdown sort of shot by shot breakdown of all of the different. Perspectives from which that footage was filmed, because I think, yeah, and also, I think now, you know, we're in a really interesting situation in terms of. How the footage is being used to find and prosecute people as evidence, you know, all of those aspects of it are deeply interesting also.
[00:15:28] And all of it deeply complicated.
[00:15:31] Michael Moore: Well, you should do that film
[00:15:32] Kirsten Johnson: or you really should. It would be a pretty amazing film right? In our spare time.
[00:15:38] Michael Moore: How's your dad tonight?
[00:15:40] Kirsten Johnson: My dad is my dad is the best. So just to tell you, I went down to visit him. He's in a dementia care facility in DC, near my brother, now, I went to visit him this last weekend and I can only see him for a half an hour and at a six foot distance outside.
[00:15:55] And it was so beautiful. I got there and he said, Oh, tell me all about yourself. And then, you know, and then I told them all about what was happening. And then he said, okay, do I get to come home with you? I said, no, I can't take you. It's the pandemic. And then it was time to go. Next day, he started the conversation with, are you taking me?
[00:16:21] And then. My brother had come with when, and we went into this crazy thing of like, well, if we took you, you know, you have dementia and you just wander outside in the back of my house and there's bears out there and ticks with Lyme disease. So you don't want to come. So we went, we went negative the second day and then the third day we just decided we'd go fantasy with it.
[00:16:41] And, uh, he said, it's all you're taking me. And I was like, yeah, we're taking you. Where do you want to go? And he's like, I don't care. I'll go anywhere with you. And I was like, let's go to the chocolate factory, like, you know, like, let's go out to the ocean. And so then we had this amazing half an hour conversation where everyone would just spit balling.
[00:16:58] What was our fantasy of where we want to go. So I've been doing that with my kids too. And I'm pro fantasy in these covered times.
[00:17:07] Michael Moore: Right, right. Yeah. I think everybody who watched this film is in love with your dad, such a great guy, you know, and I know I've already said, I've told people about the film without telling them anything.
[00:17:21] You got to watch this. Oh, it sounds so depressing. Dick Johnson, his dad, I don't even know Dick Johnson. I don't want to seed something I'm saying no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This, this film was made for us right now in this moment. And it's, it's a thing of love and it's a, uh, uh, I order you to watch this movie.
[00:17:46] I don't want people to give up when you, when you say that about me, me living longer than you are, or you, because, uh, you, you don't want to have to deal with the sorrow of my death. Jeez. I immediately thought the same thing, but then my second thought was, if I do outlive you. I will be there at your wake with my version of ‘Cameraperson’ of my clips, from everything that you've shot.
[00:18:13] Kirsten Johnson: It's a promise. This is a promise. And that's accountability. We have a lot of witnesses,
[00:18:21] Lets do something bold at each other's death. That is a promise that we make.
[00:18:25] Michael Moore: For now let's get through this though. Let's live.
[00:18:26] Kirsten Johnson: Let's live as long as we possibly can and to all of the audience; long may you live, and, uh, long made those, you love live. And I just cannot thank you enough, Michael, for doing this conversation.
[00:18:41] Michael Moore: Thank you Kirsten, thanks everybody. Be safe, be kind. And, um, we'll, uh, we'll see you somewhere right in the future.
[00:18:52] Kirsten Johnson: the gift for all, gift of the future.
[00:18:52] Michael Moore: the gift of cinema. Thank you everybody. Bye Kirsten.
[00:19:02] Krista Smith: ’Dick Jonson Is Dead,’ explores the relationship between father and daughter. While the next film we'll be talking about delves into the relationship between an Italian American grandmother and one of the most iconic movie stars of our time. ‘What Would Sophia Loren Do?’ is a documentary short. That explores one woman's six-decade long admiration for legendary actress, Sophia, Loren, the grandmother, Nancy finds inspiration and Sophia who helps her navigate her life as a daughter, mother, wife, and independent woman, similar to ‘Dick Johnson Is Dead.’
[00:19:39] The film is enchanting and endearing, even when approaching the trine and the tragic. Let's listen in on a round table discussion with the key players in the film moderated by Kirsten Johnson.
[00:19:56] Jerilyn Dreyfus: I’m Jerilyn White Dreyfus and I'm, uh, an executive producer on the film. Joining me in conversation is our beloved KJ, Kristin Johnson and Regina K. Sculley and her beloved mother who you, if you haven't. Already seen the film you'll, you'll be meeting at large, uh, Vincenza. Um, we also have filmmakers Ross Kauffman, and Robin Honan who produced the film.
[00:20:22] Regina is also a producer and executive producer of the film. I just want to start by saying that. This film has been just like buckets and buckets of joy. It's really been almost like a fairy tale. Regina told me these stories about her mother Vincenza/Nancy and her Italian heritage and how she grew up and her mother's advice.
[00:20:44] And when she ever shared with me that big decisions, like the prom dress or color or, you know, some, some, some big decision that seemed big at the moment. Her mother would be like, what would Sophia Loren do? So that became like a, uh, a measure, a little. Stop point a little inflection point. Um, and it's a metaphor, but it's also an homage to Italian heritage and grace and cinema and beauty and resilience.
[00:21:16] And so it's just been such a joy and to have the opportunity to work with Ross Kauffman, who I had the privilege of. Um, being involved with his first film, ‘Born Into Brothels’ and practically every film sense. I just, you know, when Regina told me the story, I'm like, you have to, this is a film. You have to make a film and, and, and really,
[00:21:33] We knew Ross was the person to do it because of his ability to kind of get inside the, the hearts and emotion of the emotional landscape, um, behind it, but behind a family and the legacy. So anyways, I just want to open up the conversation. With, with, uh, with KJ who was just the perfect moderator for this, with her, with her movie, ‘Dick Johnson Is Dead.’
[00:21:54] And the connections of, uh, of really telling stories about people that we love and people that are as close to us as our parents. But I just wanted to acknowledge what a beautiful creative film that you made and how, what a wonderful pairing this is for the two films.
[00:22:09] Kirsten Johnson: Really isn't it? I mean like any great meal.
[00:22:12] Right. You need, you need the glass and the plate, and Jerilyn thank you so much for this lovely introduction and, and sharing with us the way in which you are all friends and colleague and family in a certain way that we, we make family together as we make films. And, um, lucky me, I, uh, got to be on a shoot with both Robin and Ross, so I know what it is like to be with them.
[00:22:40] When they are making a film and, um, sort of how much joy and pleasure they bring to it. And so, you know, Nancy, my first question is to you because I feel like you manifested this wish on a certain level. You, you brought it into being this meeting and this film. So, so. In this way, is that Sophia Loren manages to manifest, you know, the presence we see on the screen.
[00:23:05] How'd you make this happen?
[00:23:07] Vencenza/Nancy: I think the joy of watching her when I was so busy raising four babies.
And, uh, having parents that were still alive and I was tending to them and there were many responsibilities, but I saw the joy and I always felt the joy of just being alive and well, and I was inspired by her, her, her ways.
[00:23:31] You know, her, her behavior. And I thought, wow, you know, she's fun and she’s been through so much. And I, I started to identify with those kinds of emotions that she showed. It was the, what she was showing in her resilience, in her fun. And, uh, she was just a delight.
[00:23:55] Jerilyn Dreyfus: Well, that is the perfect segue, Nancy ‘Miss Delicious’ Vencenza because we have a little surprise for you.
[00:24:03] Adorable beloved Sophia has a wants to blow you a kiss. So, we're going to she's recorded a message cause it's very late and Geneva where she is, but she has a very special wish for you in the film. So we'd like to share with everybody now. Thank you. Precious.
[00:24:21] Sophia Loren: When I first saw ‘What Would Sophia Loren Do?’ I was so touched and moved by the story.
[00:24:29] This film is an ode to family and the faith we place in others. The ones who accompany and inform our journey for me, that person was my husband inspired me to realize that the characters I embody in my films. That vitality and strength are the realization that everything we need already lives inside of us.
[00:25:05] And that in turn defined what I hope to be in life as a mother and the grandmother. But most importantly, as a woman, someone will try her best to act with care, love, and convention. The story of my friend Vincenza and her family is such a story and it is a privilege to share it with you.
[00:25:43] Jerilyn Dreyfus: So, so we've, Vincenza. I love how her eyes. I love when she says your name Vincenza and her eyes pop.
[00:25:50] Vencenza/Nancy: Oh, it's thank you. It's such an honor. And it feels so good to feel that anything we do in life, that people can feel it. It's so important. It's so supportive, you know,
[00:26:05] Regina: and that we have each other, Oh yeah.
[00:26:08] Kirsten Johnson: Feeling There's a whole lot of feeling that that woman embodies and that you embody and it's remarkable the way you recognize each other. And I have to say that the moment of you gazing at her is one of my favorite moments of the film. It's literally, you can see the beams of light passing between the two of you.
[00:26:27] This movie is such a deep movie on so many levels and, you know, I. I would like to acknowledge Regina and, um, what Regina has brought to our world of cinema in terms of, um, her choice to go after and support films that acknowledged people who haven't been seen before that speak about traumas that haven't been spoken about before.
[00:26:54] And, um, you know, I met you many, many years ago, Regina. Okay. And you told me you had a mission.
[00:27:01] Regina: You're right. I remember.
[00:27:03] Kirsten Johnson: Right. And I have seen, I've seen you carry out that mission and even in a film as free and joyful and celebratory as this, you know, at the heart of this movie is something very painful and very profound.
[00:27:22] And it's what you have been bringing to our documentary world since you entered it, basically. So, Regina, I just wanted you to talk about sort of the, the force of your mission. I remember being blown away by it, but now that I've met your mother through the movie and in person, Ooh, it's just about what would Sophia Loren do. It’s also a bit of,
[00:27:46] what's Nancy going to do with what the world has given.
[00:27:51] Regina: Hmm. Yes. Nope. First of all, Kirsten, thank you for acknowledging that it's means the world to me. I have such admiration for you and the work that you do and the same for Ross and everyone in fact on this panel, Jerilyn and Robin too. And you know, my it, your, I do remember Kirsten, my God, you have a good memory.
[00:28:11] And at that time we met, you know, I was coming off of still. You know, learning that something had happened to somebody that I love very much, but so I, I knew that the stories are so powerful, right. We learn and they go right to the heart. So I knew, wow, this is a, this is a medium, I'm interested in movies, storytelling that aims right.
[00:28:29] For the heart and moves us and just to do it with compassion and empathy. And I'm just interested in stories that go deep. And even though this story, ‘What Would Sophia Loren Do?’ Yes. It's, it's it is joyful. And it is, it is fun and it's all those things, but just as you so profoundly pointed out, it goes very, very deep.
[00:28:52] And it goes to the heart and soul of things that we all go through in life. Every one of us goes through the fire at some point in our lives and the ups and downs and all arounds. And so this film very much addresses that whether we're an international Italian icon, movie star or whether we're this precious, adorable, you know, mom and grandmother, you know, in, in, in your hometown where I grew up it, these truths just carry through in all of our lives.
[00:29:20] And we're very much the same at our core.
[00:29:21] Kirsten Johnson: Well, and this idea of, you know, we all have fires that we must go through and somehow cinema is one of the things that helps us, helps us get through. And I just got to say, I mean, the clips of Sophia Loren in this movie. Every single one of them just sends you rushing to find, like, I got to watch that movie.
[00:29:46] I got to watch that movie. And I, Robin, I want you to tell me about like the experience of discovering that you were digging into this archive and the sort of candy store that got opened up because, you know, you could make a feature film just out of the montages of Sophia Loren
[00:30:05] Robin: You know, I just think about when. We're using Sophia stories to tell Nancy's story, you know, Ross and I weren't aware of everything she was going to share. And so, you know, it's a conversation we wouldn't have had. If we were just sharing a meal, it was these films that gave Nancy the permission to share. Yep. And, you know, so I think it's just this beautiful dovetailing of using stories to tell your story in a way that, and that's what art does is it gives us permission in a way that if we were just conversing without a work of art, to inspire us or to say, I'm watching this woman experienced this horrific moment, but look, she's strong.
[00:31:01] You know, that is one of my favorite parts of making this film is just that the three of us in those very intimate moments of being in the living room, we were brought into your world, Nancy, and it was such an honor. And it was all because we were experiencing these great works of art together.
[00:31:23] Regina: And Ross was masterful and Robin and weavings.
[00:31:27] The two lives, the seemingly separate, completely different. And yet, so fundamentally connected lives of these two women. It was just was masterfully done. And what you, I love because you, what you really did was you, you wove together really these two women who have such beautiful core values. I mean, these are two deep profound women who have lived a full, full life with such honor and integrity.
[00:31:57] I just, and that just comes across so clearly in the film. And I think it was beautifully done on a cinematic level and just, you know, a tech, technical level, everything the storytelling was was just, I mean, it was an honor to watch it unfold.
[00:32:12] Ross: Well, two things, one Regina, I want to make sure everyone knows how much of collaborating, where, and a creative force behind this as well.
[00:32:19] You were amazing. You were an amazing partner as well. I just don't. I want to make sure everyone knows. Yeah. Um, cause you know, and then the other thing is I also want to, um, you know, the editor obviously is the key, take our editor, Keiko Deguchi is out there. So where, and it goes one of the most beloved and counted editors in our business.
[00:32:44] And I just want to say thank you Keiko, because Keiko goes to the one who made that work and Keiko really brought these two stories together and we didn't even know this was going to be about Sophia and Nancy when we first started, it was just, it was this exploration of, as Jerilyn said, friends, and some of Nancy's friends and, and little by little, it turned into.
[00:33:03] Yeah. You know, we'd listened to the film, you know, we all want to figure out what the film you listened to and not to sound pretentious or too pretentious. And it just evolves, but Keiko boiled it down to its essence. She really was able to weave these two stories together and I give Keiko huge amount of credit for that.
[00:33:22] Jerilyn Dreyfus: I think part of that was also because there was this fairy tale aspect to making the movie when, when Nancy and Regina actually got to meet Sophia first, um, at a celebration for America And The Arts, but then it's, Edoardo. I actually was looking for someone to her son, Edoardo Ponti was looking for someone to direct a movie about his father.
[00:33:43] And so he was kind of struggling with like, can I direct this? Should I be in it? What's the story? And I said, well, if I was going to hire a director to do that story, it would be Ross Kauffman. And then, you know, as when Regina got the guts to sort of tell a Edoardo the story about what 'What Would Sophia Loren Do’ in the apron.
[00:34:00] He just burst into tears and he's like, and, um, so he sent a, he sent the apron to Sophia and she was so touched that she called them and then starting to started this friendship. So when Dominic died. She called them again. They became this family so that when they actually finally met, you know, what you see in the movie, it's just so delicious.
[00:34:25] They were literally like two liberal school kids holding, walking hand in hand. The only thing missing was their lunch pail. I mean, they were there with their little thing and they're walking, walking, walking. I'm like, where's that? Because they just felt like they'd been together since they were five. It was, it was like, I'd never seen anything quite like it.
[00:34:45] Immediately they embrace and they start talking and sharing, you know, their trade secrets about how you get through this life and what you put up with, with your families and your husbands and your kids, I mean, was so great. Beautiful. And yet, she was just so touched and by Vincenza and Nancy and Regina, and this, that a daughter would do this for her mother that would want to share this story.
[00:35:09] And you see the relationship and devotion that Edoardo though the way he cares for his mother, the deference that he's so deferentially, so protective and Regina is that way with her mother. So, it was also this homage to Italian family, just that, that, that pride and the loyalty and the ferociousness look, the furotiousness of love.
[00:35:28] And you could feel that. So it was really fun that Ross was able to kind of bring that in and here you could feel her vulnerability is the things that she went through in life. And I think she appreciated that. I think she identified with Nancy.
[00:35:42] Kirsten Johnson: I think the, for the joy of the film is just watching Nancy, whether it's her, you know, her little jiggle, I got to get your jingle down Nancy, or the way you look up or you laugh, or when she's flipping the pizza.
[00:35:53] And you're like, like she had like, look at it, look at her. She said, I wouldn't mind looking like that.
[00:36:04] Krista Smith: That's our show. Thanks again for tuning in ‘Dick Johnson Is Dead.’ And what would Sophia Loren do or streaming now on Netflix for more head over to Netflix queue.com. That's Netflix Q U E U E .com. And follow us on Instagram and Twitter. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, review, and share. Listen in next time for ‘More Like This.’