On this episode of More Like This, Krista sits down with Fast Company’s EIC Stephanie Mehta and delves into the highlights of her podcast with the cast and crew of one of Netflix’s most watched films, "The White Tiger."
On this episode of More Like This, Krista sits down with Fast Company’s EIC Stephanie Mehta and delves into the highlights of her podcast with the cast and crew of one of Netflix’s most watched films, "The White Tiger." Directed by Ramin Bahrani, the Iranian-American speaks to his intentional decisions regarding representation and culture, including its relation to his life’s work and upbringing. Then, the cast including Adarsh Gourav, Priyanka Chopra Jonas and Rajkummar Rao detail everything from their very separate methods of character study to the film’s personal and social impact. The rooster coop is no more!
Krista Smith: Welcome to More Like This, a podcast from Netflix Queue, the journal that celebrates the people, ideas and process of creating great entertainment. I'm Krista Smith. I've spent over 20 years interviewing some of the biggest names in Hollywood. And on this show, I'm bringing you fresh new perspectives from across the entertainment industry.
With the kind of access only Netflix can offer. My co-hosts this week is editor in chief of Fast Company, the world's leading [00:00:30] progressive business media brand, where she oversees print digital and live events. Previously, a deputy editor at Vanity Fair, she edited feature stories and co-edited the annual new establishment ranking.
Stephanie Mehta. Welcome to the show.
Stephanie Mehta: Thank you, Krista.
Krista Smith: I should say full disclosure, you may have seen a uh, common word in there, Vanity Fair. I had the pleasure of working with Stephanie for several years while our paths crossed at that magazine. So it's [00:01:00] great to see you again, and it's awesome what you're doing with Fast Company.
All very exciting.
Stephanie Mehta: Well, thanks. I often credit my time at Vanity Fair for really setting me up for the job at Fast Company. You're just getting to watch people build a magazine that was so wide ranging was an incredible education would not trade those couple of years for anything.
Krista Smith: Today's episode is all about the film, The White Tiger.
The film is an epic and darkly humorous tale about the rise of a poor villager who becomes a [00:01:30] successful entrepreneur in modern India. It's based on the book of the same name by Aravind Adiga. The novel was critically and commercially successful, a New York times bestseller and a winner of the Man Booker Prize.
And to this day, it is taught in high schools and colleges around the world. The film was written for the screen and directed by Iranian-American filmmaker, Ramin Bahrani, who is also long-time friends with the Adiga. The film stars Adarsh [00:02:00] Gourav in his first leading role for which he's been nominated for the Independent Spirit Award for best male lead.
It also stars Priyanka Chopra Jonas and Rajkummar Rao. The statistic is as of right now, number one on Netflix in 64 countries, I mean, it's had a huge impact. People love this film. I have to say I'm very pleased that I got you to agree to host and moderate the official White Tiger podcast. I just wanted to ask you right off the [00:02:30] bat as someone that was coming from business. And isn't someone that's like steeped in filmmaking and, you know, talking to directors and producers and actors, like what you did for this podcast. Can you just tell us what that was like?
Stephanie Mehta: Yeah. First of all, it was really a great experience for me as somebody who, you know, despite having been in media for 25 years, still considers myself an ink-stained wretch, even though very few people still pick up the physical newspaper [00:03:00] or physical magazine, I'm still so much a, a words person.
So the experience of doing a podcast was really exciting for me. But when you think about the uh, impressions I had of speaking with the people who really made this film, the White Tiger. I was struck by a couple of things. One was how personal the material was for each and every one of the individuals I talked to, whether it was Ava [00:03:30] DuVernay, who is an executive producer, to some of the actors who participated in the movie to Priyanka Chopra Jonas who stars in the film as well as served as a producer. There...in spite of all of the incredible accomplishments that everyone from Ramin to Ava to Priyanka, all the things they've accomplished in life, I think they are all people who recognize the universality of the story of The White Tiger and [00:04:00] recognize something of their own personal experiences in the experiences of the characters that we see travel on this journey from rural poverty to, you know, sort of making it albeit in a somewhat dark way in, you know, sort of India circa the explosion of the internet era.
Krista Smith: When I saw this movie, what I was struck by was just the world that remained, creates...just the, I [00:04:30] could smell it. I could taste it. I felt like I was there. I learned so much just being in that space, just seeing the different parts of India and how the caste system worked and, and through the eyes of our lead actor and the w...the way the world's collided, but I love that scope that, that he created, you know, even that scene in the marketplace the scene when he's brushing his teeth, like all these little things I still think about now.
Stephanie Mehta: What I really liked about the way [00:05:00] Ramin created the world of The White Tiger is that he brought India to life in a way that was not condescending, that was not sort of a Western lens on an exotic culture. And so, you know, as somebody who is of South Asian descent and somebody who's traveled to India, I was on the watch for the way that India would be portrayed in the film.
And I [00:05:30] think that it was dramatic and respectful without being condescending or, you know, like he was trying to make a, a documentary with a point of view.
Krista Smith: Why don't you give us a little bit before we go into playing your interview with Ramin, how did you find him? Like he is, I loved his movie 99 Homes. I saw that at Sundance and I know he had another, um, very highly regarded film, Chop Chop. But how did you find him personally? Because to me, when I think of him, I I'm [00:06:00] slightly intimidated at the thought of talking to...to...
Stephanie Mehta: He has an intimidating resume. I mean, between the Ivy league education and the professorship at an Ivy league institution.
And of course his body of work, I, I too was a little bit intimidated to speak to him. I found him incredibly thoughtful first and foremost, which is no surprise, but witty and authentic and [00:06:30] real, and I can see why students love him because he's somebody who is in no way intimidating. He's actually very open and talking about his work has lots of cultural references that are not exclusively from the ivory tower.
In fact, he's the opposite of an ivory tower type individual. He has his own story of, of humble roots and you know, his own immigrant story. And I think that it's very relatable to a lot of the issues that he wrote about and [00:07:00] directed in The White Tiger, but also in some of his other films, he is very concerned about the human condition and the underclass, whether it's in India or the United States, people being thrown out of their homes as they were in 99 Homes.
And there's a real sensitivity there that came through in the interview.
Hello. Ramin congratulations on the film.
Ramin Bahrani: Hi, thank you. Thank you so much.
Stephanie Mehta: Let's start with your relationship to the book and Aravind whom you met while studying [00:07:30] at Columbia University. Tell our listeners a little bit about, uh, how you met and your friendship and how that developed.
Ramin Bahrani: Aravind and I were classmates in Columbia University in the nineties and, um, I think we connected through some mutual friends who were, they were all South Asian or Middle Eastern.
Um, there were not a lot of us. It was a predominantly white campus. And I think we immediately just bonded just on that and then came to understand we both had a love of literature and cinema and our [00:08:00] conversations just kept going. And you know, to 20 years later, we're still talking.
Stephanie Mehta: What was the process of adapting this book like? Because changes are inevitable when you take a book and translate it to film. But I imagine that there's some pressure when you're adapting the novel of a dear friend.
Ramin Bahrani: Yes, but, you know, Aravind took that away very quickly. He told me that I could do whatever I wanted, um, which was so freeing. [00:08:30] And, um, he said just, you can make any change you want do whatever you want.
I, I support you a hundred percent, which was, was just great. Um, that being said, of course, yeah, I still felt I got to get this right, because yeah, he's my close friend and it's a brilliant book. You know, it's a book that I....even if he, even if my friend hadn't written it, it's a book I would have loved to have made.
Stephanie Mehta: The team hired almost an entirely Indian crew for the film. [00:09:00] What was the importance of, of that Indian crew to this film, but also what's the broader significance, what's the bigger message to the film industry?
Ramin Bahrani: Well, it's all, it's always been, uh, something that's on my mind, you know? Um, I mean, things are changing in a way. Hopefully they'll keep changing since I started. I didn't see a reason to bring a lot of people.
I wanted to bring a designer because it's, uh, a critical [00:09:30] position. And I wanted someone that I knew. So I brought someone from North Carolina. And I wanted the cinematographer because I had worked with him before he came from Italy. Everybody else was Indian. They have an amazing, they have many amazing film industries in India.
We were tapped into the Bollywood one. They're professionals. They make more movies than we make here, and they know their country. They know how it works. They know, they know about all the designs and all the, um, costumes and how it should feel. And I was [00:10:00] always leaning on them to make sure we got it right.
And, um, I think in a way. They were also inspired by Aravind because who else wrote a book like that? Who else explored that level of society? Not many people in India had done that. So he was capturing something that other writers hadn't done yet. And I think that excited the crew.
Stephanie Mehta: The central metaphor in this story is the rooster's coop. [00:10:30] This notion that there are these chickens who are going to await their face...fate without protest. And Balram our young lead says the desire to be a servant has been poured into his blood. Can you explain or talk a little bit more about the power of that metaphor, because it's so powerful in the movie, but it's so visual and it's certainly something that, you know, all of the, um, all of the [00:11:00] actors whom we've talked to about the book.
And the film returned to over and over again. So it seems like it's, it's embedded in the consciousness of the performances as well as the, the broader, uh, narrative arc of the film.
Ramin Bahrani: You know, I, I think that the concept is that the trap of the rooster coop is roosters can see when their fellow brothers, the other roosters, are getting their heads chopped [00:11:30] off and they're getting de feathered and they're getting slaughtered to be turned into food.
Right. And they don't do anything. They don't yell, they don't try and break out of their cages. They just sit and watch and accept that. And Balram's understanding of that in the novel is that that's the way indian society works, then that's the way the rich have trained the rest of the society to think and behave through many different avenues, you know, um, [00:12:00] caste system, uh, economic systems, um, cultural systems.
I think the, the hardest one to deal with the most diversive one weirdly is actually family. That in the novel, even Stanley becomes part of that trap. And that's kind of, kind of part of the hardest decision. The most divisive decision that Balram has to take is that decision will also impact his family.
And the fact that he's [00:12:30] prepared to do that to be free. That's I think the whole book, that's the whole movie, what you're willing to do to be free from your trap. How far are you willing to go to be a free man? Um, I think that's what makes it universal.
Stephanie Mehta: This story is obviously based in India, but it's a global story.
Why do you think the story of The White Tiger, the novel, and now the film has such global resonance?
[00:13:00] Ramin Bahrani: I think that as we discussed that feeling of, of, um, being, being trapped in a rigged system, of being unable to have basic your basic human rights and a basic shot at life. Um, feeling that it's been stacked against you by a handful of rich people...again, going to Aravind.
I love that he was able to do it with fun and humor to, it just was a blessing to the, to the project [00:13:30] that he's able to do it was so kind of a cheekiness, you know, that keeps you entertained through it all.
Stephanie Mehta: Shifting gears to talk a little bit about your career, you know, work and how people make a living has been central to your storytelling.
This is not just a backdrop or a character to tale. What attracted you to this notion of work as a theme or a central part of, of your narratives in, in your work?
Ramin Bahrani: In general I'm interested in characters and [00:14:00] worlds. I don't normally see in movies. Um, Because I'm Iranian and don't quite belong in America, but because I was raised in America, I don't really belong as an Iranian.
This idea of not fitting in or not belonging matched for a lot of my stories that are about, um, immigrants or black characters or brown characters, um, where they don't seem to quite belong. And so once you're trying to make a movie about people you don't [00:14:30] normally see in films, you're basically getting into almost every occupation outside of detective and doctor and you know, high-end work.
So, um, I like seeing what people really do for a living and, and how does the job inform their day-to-day lives? And I don't know about you, but to me it seems like the work we do is a direct impact on the life we're living on how we, how much money we make, what kind of um, pressure and tensions. We have how that impacts our [00:15:00] relationships with our families, what we're prepared to do to, to keep our families going and to help the people we love.
Um, that's all in relationship to the ability to, to struggle, to survive in, uh, in a society. And economics is a huge part of that. So I think that, and that leads to big kind of character choices, which is storytelling.
Stephanie Mehta: We are seeing more stories of, of, [00:15:30] um, underrepresented voices being told. Um, what are your thoughts on, on what we're seeing right now?
Is this a, is this a permanent shift or do you feel like the industry is, um, is gravitating to these stories because it's sort of the, that they're having a moment.
Ramin Bahrani: I think probably a little bit of both, but I think that well, one, I'm glad there's some change happening because man, it was really hard to get those first films made and even harder [00:16:00] to get them distributed back then.
I think the global nature of streamers, like Netflix means they're interested in content or movies or films or series that can reach a broader audience, or a...a different kind of audience, which I mean, for me, I'm thrilled about it because I typically like to make that kind of work.
Stephanie Mehta: There's also been an evolution in who gets to be the protagonist in our [00:16:30] stories.
And as we've talked about, The White Tiger is told from the point of view of a servant. Why do you think that shift is significant? And what kinds of new storytelling or new opportunities do you think that will lead to.
Ramin Bahrani: That's a good question. Um, I mean, it's, to be honest with you, despite the changes, Stephanie, I still feel it is always harder to get certain projects made.
[00:17:00] Um, it's never going to be easy to walk into a room and say, I want to make a movie about someone getting evicted. Okay. 99 Homes. It's just they'll make it, but you'll al...they'll always be a bit of a limit to how much money you'll get to do that kind of project, which is again, one of the reasons I don't think it was easy to make White Tiger.
It would not have been easy back then as it was an epic story, it needed a certain amount of money to get the scope of Aravind's novel out there. Um, I hope [00:17:30] it leads to more unique and original and subversive work. What I hope it doesn't lead to is politically correct diverse work. Meaning that people's creativity gets led into a direction that feels only safe.
I think it's okay for creative work to not be safe for it to be challenging. The way Aravind's [00:18:00] novel is, that what's happening in there. Isn't isn't just safe. As I said earlier, it's not about a servant that ultimately protects the family and a sunset. It's saying something different. It's harder to, to know what to do with which I like, you know.
Stephanie Mehta: As a director you've been known to give your actors a lot of freedom on set, what kind of environment are you trying to foster and why is that important to you [00:18:30] as a filmmaker?
Ramin Bahrani: You know, the script is a blueprint and it's a very, very important one. I mean, it's critical, but on, on the day, on the day, meaning when the lights and camera and the props and everything is there and the costumes are being worn, that's a whole nother thing. And before you can do anything, you just need to make sure it's worth filming.
Like, is this scene actually worth filming? And for that to happen, you [00:19:00] need to see it. You need to see it with the actors. And if you think it's worth filming, for me after that, it's searching. It's it's encouraging the actors to search for things they never found before in the characters, it's encouraging the actress to find something that they never found in the scene before.
It's encouraging them to try it in another way. You know, it's encouraging them to try it another way. And if it doesn't work, who cares, just let's try [00:19:30] something else. And who says it doesn't work? Maybe it does, maybe in six months from now in the edit room that will be the best take, even though we didn't think it worked.
So it's not about right and wrong. It's more about, let's just try, let's try other ways.
Stephanie Mehta: As a filmmaker, I've read interviews and seen you talk about learning from your mistakes. And it's interesting because even though we often learn our most valuable lessons from our mistakes, people rarely talk about them.
I'm a business [00:20:00] journalist and it's very hard to get CEOs to own up to making mistakes. Well, why are you so open about, um, things that, uh, have fallen short in, in your career or in a movie?
Ramin Bahrani: You know maybe because I teach also, and I like to talk to my students about things I did so that they may not repeat those mistakes, although I assume they will anyway.
'Cause sometimes you just have to do it yourself to know. I always tell them things I've done that I think [00:20:30] could work, but I'm very quick to tell them things I've done that didn't work. That didn't help me or didn't work out in my films because honestly I'm hoping they'll become better than me and shoot off into another place and, you know, make some awesome films that they're already making that have inspired me.
And, and why not? Um, Herzog has been so open with me, Amir Naderi, the great Iranian director who I came to know and became a teacher to me. He's taught me so many things. I think it's just part of the [00:21:00] the way life always is right? You, you, you learn from people who have done it and that includes their mistakes.
What's wrong with that? I often tell younger directors not to ask so many questions and just go do it. Um, and certainly don't ask questions about distribution and money and things like this. Just go make your movie by hook or by crook as weird and as personal and as close to your own vision as possible.
And unlike anything else would be [00:21:30] better and not ask so many questions.
Stephanie Mehta: What made you want to become a filmmaker? What drew you to storytelling? And then specifically filmmaking.
Ramin Bahrani: I started writing short stories as a teenager until I had a high school teacher who started showing us movies from the 1970s.
And started talking about movies as if they were important and things that could be discussed, which I never knew that you could do that. And, um, I just got [00:22:00] captivated by that and it seemed like a way to combine my interest in the fine arts and in literature, I thought movies would be both those things and it just seemed like more people watched movies nowadays.
I thought I could kind of have a connection to more people and once you start down the road at a certain point, you just can't stop. You know, you just realize that's what you're doing. And there's nothing else that you want to do. I mean, I, I don't. The concept of vacation is so weird [00:22:30] to me. I don't get it, you know, and my partner Marlise has always...thinks it's so weird until one day I asked Werner, did you know what this means vacation?
And he didn't understand that either. And then I felt that was okay.
Stephanie Mehta: Final question for you. And that's a little bit about the storytellers that really have emerged on the scene in the last, sort of call it 20 to 30 years. I mean, we've so seen so many immigrants and [00:23:00] first-generation Americans, um, find their voices as storytellers and not just telling immigrant stories, but, you know, th...there, there seems to be uh, a generation of immigrant and first-generation Americans who are such keen observers of detail and of the landscape and, and have this ability to, to skewer and, um, and deflate, uh, stereotypes or conventions. [00:23:30] Uh, do you have a thought on why some of our most keenly observant storytellers come from this perspective?
Ramin Bahrani: I can't speak for the others. Um, I mean, for me, I feel I was blessed to have two eyes, you know, one eye sees America and the other one sees Iranian and I feel that helped me, that helped me see things differently. You know, one thing I came to learn in my time in Iran was if there's a, I [00:24:00] don't know if there's an incident happening on the road, a car accident, a disturbance over there to my left, and everybody looks over there to the left.
I understood while being in Iran, my job was to take my hand to my head and physically move it to the right and look into the corner away from where everyone else was looking and try to find something there. And inevitably, I always found something where nobody was looking.
Stephanie Mehta: One eye sees American and one eye sees Iranian.
I love that. [00:24:30] Ramin thank you so much for your time today. This has been a great conversation and I know our listeners we'll, uh, we'll glean a lot from it.
Ramin Bahrani: Stephanie I really appreciate it.
Krista Smith: All right, Stephanie. So next, we're going to hear from the actors and you spoke with Adarsh Gourav, who I, who I mentioned earlier, gives a phenomenal performance. And then Rajkummar Rao and Priyanka Chopra Jonas. Now what's [00:25:00] interesting about this cast is they're all excellent. And I have to say I was blown away by Priyanka.
I'm not sure why, because she's had such an incredible career. If you think about her career in India, before we were even introduced to her, uh, on the ABC Quantico on the kind of episodic television to her you know, modeling career, but she was just so good as Pinky in this film. You really, I just thought it's, it's going to launch the second phase of her career in my, [00:25:30] in my opinion.
But all three of them definitely come from different backgrounds. They're in different stages of their careers, but they all worked beautifully together on screen. What were some of your impressions from speaking to to, all three of them.
Stephanie Mehta: The thing I came away with after speaking to all three actors is the incredible respect that they all had for one another.
Obviously Priyanka is probably the most globally well-known of the actors, but Rajkummar is a [00:26:00] superstar in his own, right in India. You know, Adarsh is somebody who, while he is a fresh face, he is a trained actor. He is somebody who knows his stuff and came in every day. I'm sure, you know, ready to, ready to go toe to toe with these, um, these accomplished actors.
And so what was amazing to hear was how much respect they all had for one another. And how they all spoke about the set that Ramin created, [00:26:30] that Ramin created an environment that allowed them on the one hand to be somewhat improvisational, too. Play with the material so that they got it right. But at the same time, you know, it was clear that everybody on set, you know, listened to one another, shared ideas, shared best practices.
There was not something hierarchical at work. And that really came out in all of the conversations. All of them are South Asian actors. [00:27:00] And I think knowing that this was going to be a global film, knowing that this was going to be for some people maybe not their first impression of India, but a lasting impression of India.
I think they all took that really seriously and really wanted to make sure that the portrayal that they did right by the material first and foremost, because I think they all felt very close to the book having, in some cases, read it when it first came out, or knowing that Ramin has the special relationship with Aravind Adiga, the writer, they [00:27:30] were roommates in Columbia.
Um, so they wanted to do right by the material, but I think they also wanted to do right by Indian culture. They wanted to make sure that it was a nuanced performance and a nuanced production, um, that brought to light the complexity of the story, as well as the complexity of the culture.
Priyanka Chopra: I remember reading it and not being able to put it down. Um, it was compelling. It was, um, [00:28:00] extremely provocative. It made me uncomfortable.
Stephanie Mehta: That's the voice of Priyanka Chopra, Jonas who plays the part of Pinky Madam, and also serves as an executive producer on the film.
Priyanka Chopra: It was an outside in perspective. Um, you know, something that the world is very desensitized to, um, And it, it talked about uncomfortable, uncomfortable situations, but from the fictionalized story of Balram, who was such an sensational character, to me, just the story of [00:28:30] his ambition and his desire, deep seated desire to want to get out of the circumstances that he was born into and what, you know, a human being, um, can be led to, with a hunger in their belly.
Um, and all of that was very provocative to me.
Stephanie Mehta: In fact, the book resonated so powerfully with Priyanka that she actively pursued being involved in the film.
Priyanka Chopra: I called my agents. I remember and said, I have to be a part of this movie, whether, you know, in whatever capacity, [00:29:00] because I love this book and I really believe in it.
So I called, uh, I made them call up to offer my services, um, as an actor and as an executive producer, because I just believe in the material so much, and I really want to be, um, championing South Asian, um, stories in, you know, in on Western entertainment, in global entertainment.
Adarsh Gourav: The two things that resonated with me most strongly with the feeling of inequality that exists, [00:29:30] um, universally. Not just in India but across the world.
Stephanie Mehta: This is Adarsh Gourav who plays Balram Halwai the poor villager at the center of the story who rises to become a successful entrepreneur. Adarsh has been acting since his teens, but The White Tiger marks his first lead role in a feature film. The part of Balram was a coveted one and prominent actors expressed interest, but writer, director Ramin Bharani said he knew the role belonged to Adarsh [00:30:00] from the moment he walked in, I asked about the audition process.
Adarsh Gourav: I cleared the first round and then, uh, you know, like before I knew it, I was past three or four rounds. And I think in the third round is when Ramin came into the picture. And we, um, we did the scenes, I think, I think by the end of two and a half or three weeks, um, I, I was told by, Ramin that he wanted me to play Balram and it was.
[00:30:30] It was just, I was just so numb when he told me that, that, you know, like we all, all of us have this, have this moment in our heads when we live the moment in our heads. And we're like, you know, when something really significant happens, we'll be like, um, you know, jumping across the room and we will probably go crazy, but it was such, it was so surreal for me to hear that I was just.
I was just still, I was emotionless. I was numb.
Stephanie Mehta: Rajkummar, [00:31:00] Rao who plays Ashok, Balram's master and husband to Pinky Madam is one of India's most prolific successful and acclaimed actors.
Rajkummar Rao: When I read the book actually, when it came out in 2008, I loved the writing. I loved the characters in it, but I was just waiting for someone to make the film.
And in not even in my dreams, I ever thought that I would get a chance to be a part of this book of this film. But when Ramin he came down to India when he met me and he told me that, you know, he's planning this film, The White Tiger. And he wanted me to read for [00:31:30] Ashok. I was very happy. I was thrilled.
I thought, you know, this is something somewhere where universe was working for me. Ramin is very sensitive. He, he feels things differently. You know, he's a sensitive guy, he's an emotional guy. And, uh, you know, and more than that, he's, uh, he's a great human being. I think, and for me, that's pretty important for your, for the, especially I think for anyone, no matter you're an actor, you're a technician, you're a director, you're a maker.
You have [00:32:00] to be a good human being first because you're, you're dealing with emotions. Filmmaking is mostly about, you know, dealing with emotions, emotions of your characters, emotions of your crew and your cast, uh, and the way, Ramin handles things, it's a, it's very unique. Priyanka's character Pinky Madam evolved from the book in key ways.
And I asked her about the development of her character. Priyanka took me back to her audition.
Priyanka Chopra: Ramin um, met me in my home in Mumbai and I told him, would you like me to audition? I'm fine. Like we [00:32:30] could do it, work the scene out. And he was like, hey, I'd love that. So, you know, we sort of played with the scene.
I met him multiple times actually, before I've signed the movie on and we talked about what Pinky's character would be, um, because it's evolved tremendously from the book. Um, and the book was a, it was a pivotal part, but it was sort of, um, a voyeuristic perspective whereas Pinky is very much her own person in the movie.
Um, and I just think we talked so much about who she is and [00:33:00] you know, what, what happens to her, um, her perspective of where she comes from and where she wants to go, that it was, it was really wonderfully immersive for me, um, to work with a director like Ramin, who liked to go to those places and push me as an actor to go to those places.
Stephanie Mehta: For Rajkummar, mastering Ashok's accent was key as well as developing his character's backstory.
Rajkummar Rao: Ashok is someone who has spent so much of time in the States. So he's a very naturally, you know, picked up the accent. [00:33:30] And I, I live here. I live in India. I stay here the way we speak English is very different from the way you guys speak.
So I had to pick up on the accent. And I had a one year for accent coach with me, language coach with me, and she really helped me out. And I was watching a lot of films. I, I actually, I had to refer to Suits. Someone told me I should watch Suits. Uh, and Suits really helped me. You know what? I picked up a lot of things from there.
Stephanie Mehta: In his preparation to play Balram, Adarsh Gourav would go to great lengths to understand his [00:34:00] character's life.
Adarsh Gourav: I initially went to a village in the Eastern part of India because I come from a small town, but then Balram came from a much interior part of India and people in the village of course think, and their lives are just different than city folk. Right. So I just wanted to have an idea of what it would be to uh, to live in a village.
So I befriended this person who has to stay near my house. I went to his village with him and [00:34:30] we, his village is so deep inside that we had to change like five modes of transport. We took a flight, then we took a bus. Then we took another bus. Then we took a smaller rickshaw and then we finally took like an even smaller, uh, rickshaws. Uh, very, very fascinating.
The 15 days I spent there, I specifically requested him to not tell anybody that I'm an actor. And so neither his family, not his friends knew me as an actor, but yeah, the idea was to just spend time with them, hear what they spoke about how they [00:35:00] thought about things happening around them.
Stephanie Mehta: A common theme in my conversation with the actors was the sense of freedom that writer director Ramin Bahrani created on set and the spirit of exploration that he encouraged.
Rajkummar Rao: I worked with some prolific makers here in, in India and some marvelous directors, but the one thing which is very different in Ramin is which I've never actually heard, uh, about any director doing. He doesn't say action, which is, you know, so fulfilling. And so [00:35:30] it makes you so easy as an actor, like his processes, he would, of course everything we put there, you know, roll camera, roll sound.
And then it would just say, whenever you're ready, that's such a relief. You know, though, that little bit of, I won't say I feel stressed when somebody says action, but just that thing that, you know, it's so beautiful. It it's a small thing. I know maybe, uh, but the way that he says whenever you're ready. So, you know, it is your space, it's your scene.
You're living that part.
Priyanka Chopra: He gave us tremendous amounts of freedom, um, [00:36:00] and you know, really relied on us to sort of bring something to him. It was a true collaboration. It was a great partnership.
Adarsh Gourav: Ramin, just gave me so much freedom to work with as an actor. Um, he made it such a collaborative process. I I'd never experienced that before.
You know, he, he would, the slightest of things he would ask me, he'd be like, hey, you know, what do you think Balram would wear or what, what are the things that you think would be there in Balram's office? And it all these tiny, tiny details just [00:36:30] made me feel so personally connected with, with Balram.
Stephanie Mehta: As this was Adarsh's first lead role in a feature.
I asked him what he had learned working with Priyanka and Rajkummar, two seasoned stars.
Adarsh Gourav: A lot, I think with both of them, it was just, um, the amount of hunger that they still have towards the craft and just how dedicated they are and how passionate they are towards it. In spite of being, [00:37:00] um, so many in spite of having so many years of experience behind them, they never made me feel like I was a newcomer and they were very grounded, very kind towards me and not just towards me, towards, towards people in general, both of them are such kind and nice human beings.
Priyanka Chopra: Adarsh, is one of the most brilliant actors I've worked with and him and I are very good friends now, but I remember the first time I met him, he came into my house to do a reading and we were just sitting and talking about. [00:37:30] You know, like what an incredible role and, and how he was about it. And he went on to tell me about, um, you know, what all he did to sort of get into, um, the part.
And I just, I just wanted to be there to support him in every possible way. He was a great dancing partner to have, you know, um, he just brought a depth and understanding of Balram that I think that you can see when you watch the movie that I think most people [00:38:00] would not have been able to do.
Stephanie Mehta: As we conclude this episode, I leave you with these final thoughts from our Adarsh and Rajkummar on what they hope the audience might be thinking about after watching The White Tiger.
Adarsh Gourav: I just hope at least to some introspection, it leads to people questioning their decisions. You know just give them a little shake, a little um, jolt from their comfortable seats. I just hope it places a mirror in front [00:38:30] of people and makes them see things, uh, for the way they are and not be ignorant and not be selfish.
Um, just recognize your privileges more than be kinder to people.
Rajkummar Rao: We'll start seeing people, uh, when we're walking down the street who are otherwise actually kind of invisible, and we don't know about their stories, we don't know about their struggles. We are so happy and so busy [00:39:00] in our own lives. So I hope people change that, you know, and people start noticing people, people start seeing people and I hope that they become more compassionate towards other beings.
Krista Smith: So Stephanie, as we wrap up this episode, you know, you ask everybody that you interviewed kind of what they hoped audiences would feel or would think after [00:39:30] watching The White Tiger. Like what, what what lasting impressions they would have. And I, and so I'm going to pose that question to you, you know, what did you think after watching it?
What stayed with you? What, what has been, you know, a month out of it, what what's been some of your lasting impressions?
Stephanie Mehta: I would say there were several lasting impressions. It is, as you point out a, a film that really stays with you long after you've, you've watched it. A couple of things come to mind. One is you know, the, the price that people have to [00:40:00] pay for success is it is challenging. You know, you saw the rise of our protagonist from a fairly innocent high potential kid in a rural village to his rise as a sort of mini mogul in the world of India, sort of during the rise of outsourcing. And, you know, he was forced into some choices, but also deliberately made a lot of other choices. Some [00:40:30] of which are very dark. I won't give them away for those people who haven't seen the film or read the book, but it does sort of make you think about the choices that people in impoverished situations have to make in order to achieve even the very basics in life.
And I think the other big impression or big takeaway from, from this film for me is, you know, again, it's just a revelation about the way you can take a beloved book and turn it [00:41:00] into a beloved movie. There are few books that have the kind of global resonance that The White Tiger had when it came out and to me when it came out, it felt very much like a moment in time because of when it came out and the subject matter, it, it tackled...and yet as source material that has held up incredibly well for both the film, as well as a standalone book. And I imagine that people will be watching this film and reading the book 20, 30, [00:41:30] 50 years from now.
Krista Smith: Hmm. I would agree with that. I think it's such a great standalone a piece about the human condition and I, when you were just talking, I was thinking about one of my lasting takeaways is what would we do? In those, in that situation, given the exact same place in time, what, what decisions would we have made?
And I think that that is super thought provoking for people, but I can't thank you enough for coming on the show. It's it's great to hear you again, see you again and got to [00:42:00] work with you again. It's just like a total treat, but I want to, I want you to tell people, first of all, where can they find Fast Company in the days of cOVID and the pandemic and where can they find you? So now you're going to have to give me a little spiel because I want, I want it.
Stephanie Mehta: Well, happy to give a spiel. So, uh, readers can find Fast Company every day at fastcompany.com. And if you go to fastcompany.com/podcasts, we actually have our own two podcasts.
It's The New Way We Work, [00:42:30] which is really a sort of productivity and workplace conversations and then Creative Conversation. So for listeners to this podcast, the Creative Conversation really does bring in a lot of the same people, um, from, from Krista's world, you know, artists and individuals who are really sitting at that intersection of creativity and business.
And then you can find me on Twitter at, @StephanieMehta and also on Instagram at, @StephanieMehta.
Krista Smith: Oh, thank you so very much.
Stephanie Mehta: Thank you Krista.
[00:43:00] Krista Smith: That's our show for an even deeper dive check out the official podcast of The White Tiger. Wherever you listen. The White Tiger is streaming now on Netflix. For more content to explore, please visit Netflixqueue.com. That's Netflix Q U E U e.com. And follow us on Instagram and Twitter. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, review, and share.
Thanks again. Listen in next time for more like this. [00:43:30]