On this special episode of More Like This, two documentaries focused on marginalized communities approach activism through their own distinct ideals for justice. Beginning with "Crip Camp," filmmakers Jim Lebrecht and Nicole Newnham speak alongside fellow activist Judy Heumann about the ways in which disability rights, civil rights and a summer camp culminated in the film’s historical point. Next, Sophia Nahli Allison, director of "A Love Song for Latasha," details the ways she decolonized her process and combatted anti-Blackness to portray her subject’s full life prior to death in ways that history has not. Social justice begins with courage.
On this special episode of More Like This, two documentaries focused on marginalized communities approach activism through their own distinct ideals for justice. Beginning with "Crip Camp," filmmakers Jim Lebrecht and Nicole Newnham speak alongside fellow activist Judy Heumann about the ways in which disability rights, civil rights and a summer camp culminated in the film’s historical point. Next, Sophia Nahli Allison, director of "A Love Song for Latasha," details the ways she decolonized her process and combatted anti-Blackness to portray her subject’s full life prior to death in ways that history has not. Social justice begins with courage.
Krista Smith: Welcome to ‘More Like This,’ a podcast from Netflix Queue, the journal that celebrates the people, ideas and process of creating great entertainment. I'm Krista Smith. I've spent over 20 years interviewing some of the biggest names in Hollywood. And on this show, I'm bringing you fresh new perspectives from across the entertainment industry, with the kind of access only Netflix can offer on this episode.
[00:00:25] Two documentaries are thrust into the spotlight for their harrowing tales of injustice, and they're revitalizing approaches to activism, participating in the art of protest through storytelling. These films, leave us with tools to question our lives. As we know it with hearts full of hope to achieve lasting change.
[00:00:47] The two documentaries or ‘Crip Camp.’ And I love song for Latasha encrypt camp. We see life through the eyes of the teenage campers of Camp Jeanette, a free-thinking summer camp in upstate New York. That was a Haven for teens with disabilities in the 1970s. The film tracks the journey of former campers who became catalyst and igniting the fight for disability rights and justice.
[00:01:13] Former president Barack Obama and Michelle Obama executive produced the film, which premiered at the Sundance film festival in 2020. Next, we'll hear a conversation with Crip camp co-directors and co-producers Nicole Newnham and Jim Lebrecht. As well as disability activists, Judy human, who was one of the subjects of the film along with Jim.
[00:01:35] Steve James: Hi there, I'm Steve James. I am a filmmaker and I have the distinct pleasure of being a moderator for tonight's discussion of the fabulous film ‘Crip Camp’ with the directors, Nicole Newnham, and Jim Lebrecht as well as one of the principles subjects and a tour de force in the world of disability rights, Judy Heumann.
[00:02:02] I am a, uh, older guy with gray hair wearing glasses. I'd like to say I'm younger than I, uh, I look younger than I am, but I don't think that's the case. And I'm at, in my home and my living room in Oak park, Illinois, which is a suburb of Chicago.
[00:02:20] Judy Heumann: My name is Judy Heumann. I am probably the oldest in this crowd. I'm. 73 years old. I am a white disabled woman. I use a motorized wheelchair. I have on red glasses and red earrings that a little dangly. And I'm wearing a red sweater with black thin lined diamonds. I'm in the foyer of our apartment and I have a lot of family photos and sketches behind me and plants in the dining room.
[00:02:49] Jim Lebrecht: Hi, I'm Jim Lebrecht. I am a, a older white guy with glasses, long hair, uh, gray mustache and goatee. I've got a kind of a blue shirt on and behind me is a red wall with a bunch of movie posters. And I'm calling him from Oakland, California.
[00:03:09] Judy Heumann: I'm in DC.
[00:03:11] Nicole Newnham: I'm also in Oakland, California. I'm Nicole Newnham. And, uh, I am a 51-year-old white woman with blondish brownish hair down to my shoulders, actually past my shoulders now, thanks to COVID.
[00:03:23] I'm wearing glasses. I'm sitting next to a bookcase in my home in Oakland with a Greek bouzouki instrument that my 15-year-old son plays hanging on the wall in the background.
[00:03:33] Steve James: So, let's jump into it. First question, Jim. When did you first have the notion that there was a film that needed to be made here?
[00:03:43] I mean, you're obviously for those who don't know, Jim is something you, someone who's worked in this business and particularly done a lot of documentary work over the years and sound work, sound design. So, what, what made you decide this film needed to be made?
[00:03:57] Jim Lebrecht: You know, over the years, I've, I've mixed, uh, just a number of wonderful documentaries.
[00:04:03] There's a incredible doc community here in the Bay area, and I've seen the power of documentary film. And I felt like that there was a story. There was a story around disability that I wasn't seeing. That about a lived experience and kind of piece of history. And so one of the people I've worked with for many, many years is Nicole and I, fortunately I've mixed three of her previous feature-length documentaries.
[00:04:34] We became friends. And so when she was wrapping up her last film, uh, revolutionary optimists, I invited her to lunch and I was starting to pitcher some ideas around disability related films, but actually almost all candidly on the way back to the building, after we had lunch, I said to her, but you know, Nicole, I think I I've always wanted to see a documentary about my summer camp.
[00:05:02] That I think there's a story here about these people going from New York out to Berkeley and the disability rights in independent living movement and that kind of stuck.
[00:05:16] Steve James: Nicole, what initially struck you about it that made you interested? If not more than just interested.
[00:05:22] Nicole Newnham: I do remember when he said that thing about his summer camp, I thought, Oh my gosh.
[00:05:27] You know, cause a lot of people have these very romantic, really. Wonderful feelings about their summer camp, but not everybody's summer camp needs to be a documentary. And I think, you know, to be totally honest, I think I probably had some sort of stereotypical ideas about what a camp for, you know, handicapped kids in the 1970s was like, and then Jim starts describing it.
[00:05:51] And that was that. Clash between that expectation and the reality that he was describing, you know, I'm like hippies and make out sessions behind the bunk and you thought you could smoke dope there. And it wouldn't stop because right down the street and you guys are finding yourselves in the kind of full flowering of the civil rights movement.
[00:06:08] And you think it's connected to a takeover of a federal building in San Francisco seven years later, you know, it was just full of so much. So many, so many surprising things, you know, and also just really seemed to represent a way that Jim had changed my. Mind around disability over the course of time that he and I had become friends as colleagues.
[00:06:30] You know, he started to make me see disability as a civil rights issue. Um, he started to make me see disability as a community and a culture in a way that I never had. And so here with this time period and the community and the kind of synergy and the idea that this camp was a spark of a movement. It seemed very exciting.
[00:06:50] And so then when he mentioned the footage, you know, it was like, we were, cause we were thinking, well, maybe we're going to have to. Cast young actors with disabilities and recreate the camp because we knew, we knew that like an immersion in that world was going to be kind of the power base of the film.
[00:07:05] And we just weren't sure how to do it. And then we tracked down this guy, Howard Gutstadt who was on the board of a radical bookstore in San Francisco and he's like, yeah, I have all the footage, you know, um, five and a half hours of it. And I haven't looked at it since, and I'd love to collaborate with you. And Jim and I went and met him in San Francisco.
[00:07:26] And, um, when Jim rolled in, he just like burst into tears, you know? Cause he was part of this video coalition that really had this idea about using video to empower our communities. And so I think this Jim making the film as an outcome of that was probably beyond their wildest expectations of what would result from their work and all of that combined made this, something that seemed like it had huge potential to really change the way other people saw disability to
[00:07:56] Jim Lebrecht: What really became apparent to me very early on is that these folks could have come into the camp. And as the camp director, how are you taking care of these quote unquote handicap children, but they came in and you see in the film, they said, Hey, we are the people's video theater, help us make a film about your account.
[00:08:19] Yeah. And having that kind of respect in the agency, especially as young adults and teens and such with disabilities. I mean, I look back on that and it was like stunning to me, but that's who they were. They wanted to take this new technology and bring it to marginalized communities. And look, I mean, the outgrowth of them intriguing us to really participate with them as opposed to simply being observed.
[00:08:48] Was this kind of Seminole moment in the film where there's this discussion around a table are messaged short pants. And without them doing that, you know, um, you know, we wouldn't have this incredible moment captured.
[00:09:05] Steve James: Judy. What was your first experience of being at the camp? Do you recall?
[00:09:09] Judy Heumann: I had been to a camp prior to Jeanette. Camp for me was always a great opportunity to be away from my family and to be with other kids who were my age and some who were older and really began to come into my own. And what was good about Jeanette is. I think one year I went there for four weeks and a couple of years they went there for eight weeks.
[00:09:36] So you really build a community in a different way when you're there that long. And it was an important opportunity to begin to discuss barriers that we were facing in a way that also enabled us to look at solutions. I think that's, you know, clearly at 12, 13, 14, 15, We didn't necessarily have the clarity of what we were going to exactly do, but we very much did have clarity that we needed to move away from complaining about problems to addressing them.
[00:10:13] And it enabled us to have discussions about how we felt about discrimination. How we felt about how he retreated in the broader society and, you know, really being with other disabled people was very important because we had similar stories which really enabled us to come up with visions of what things could be.
[00:10:38] Steve James: It sounds like it indeed was very formative for you in terms of what you went on to do in terms of your activism.
[00:10:46] Judy Heumann: Yes, absolutely. I think it's true. All of the main people in the film. Now, everybody, all the main speakers in the film didn't actually go to camp, but I think Corvette, she didn't go to the camp, but she had the same experience of coming together with other disabled people.
[00:11:06] I think that's really the theme of this. It's the ability to come together with people who are similar to who you are, were experiencing discrimination. For similar reasons and who ultimately make a decision that it's unacceptable and that we're going to do something together, which was very empowering.
[00:11:27] Steve James: So how would you characterize them as interviewers? What was that process like for you Judy? I love asking the subjects about the filmmakers interviewing techniques.
[00:11:37] Judy Heumann: I mean, it felt very Nashville because, I mean, I know Jimmy so well, and I think Nicole played a really seamless role in being very engaged, but inserting when she felt we needed to have a new question or a nuance of a question.
[00:11:56] So it was very comfortable. And I think, you know, we shot a number of times and it felt very collaborative because their amount of it was pretty natural. I mean, you all had an idea of what you wanted to get out of it, but I think it pretty much flows kind of see where it would go. Is that fair to say, Jimmy?
[00:12:20] Yeah, definitely.
[00:12:21] Jim Lebrecht: I think there's a sense of trust that you have as a, someone that's being interviewed when you're being asked to questions by somebody from your own community. And we, we heard this a few times from people like, I wouldn't be talking like this, if it wasn't the fact that I was talking to somebody else with a disability and that they also trusted Nicole and I to really know what to do with some incredible stories that they were sharing with us.
[00:12:52] Judy Heumann: Yeah. I think it was more than Jimmy had a disability because there are plenty of other disabled people who. You know, one would not, I would not necessarily feel as comfortable with, I mean, for me, you know, Jimmy and I, in many ways have grown up together and I'd seen the different transitions in his life.
[00:13:11] And I personally felt that Jimmy doing this film also is something important for him because he was really coming out as a disabled person in a much broader way than he had been before. Not that he ever denied his disability, not that he was ever hiding it in any way, but I really think this film allowed you Jimmy to really be in a very critical position to create something that was expressing all of our views, but including your views.
[00:13:45] Jim Lebrecht: Thank you, Judy.
[00:13:46] Steve James: Judy, did you see it at Sundance?
[00:13:54] Judy Heumann: Oh yeah.
[00:13:48] Jim Lebrecht: We were there. We were there.
[00:13:54] Judy Heumann: I went to six of the showings, I think.
[00:13:58] Jim Lebrecht: We're very fortunate that Michael chow, uh, who is a wonderful guy, who really he contents is, is I'd like to make sure that all the kids from Camp Jeanette go to the opening of park city, like in a well. Well, we're in our sixties now, but it was extraordinary and look on him.
[00:14:19] And a bunch of other people really made this possible that somebody, the people from the film wound up being at the opening and the Eccles. And that evening was just extraordinary. And as the credits are rolling, we all kind of first off, they pulled down seats in the theater so that we could all sit together as opposed to being scattered around.
[00:14:41] Thank you, Sundance. And then, you know, and we come around the side and go there and you know, we're being basically in silhouette as the credits are rolling, and you're seeing these wheelchairs and other people coming out there and you could hear the applause. And then when the lights came up, it was a standing ovation and it was extraordinary.
[00:15:05] But then you know, about a few minutes into it. There was a question from the audience and the Nicole hands the microphone to Judy. Another thunderous, standing ovation as a sound guy it was one of the loudest things I've ever heard, but it was. And then time where you felt like people with disabilities and us as a community had gained a certain amount of new recognition and respect and validation that I don't think we've really, we rarely experienced before.
[00:15:41] It was incredible.
[00:15:44] Steve James: Well, yeah. And for Judy sitting there before, before the ovations, at the end, watching just watching the movie, had you seen it before that? Or was that your first time actually seeing.
[00:15:54] Judy Heumann: I'd seen it, but I hadn't seen it with the credits.
[00:15:57] Steve James: Yeah. And, and, or with an audience. So what was going through your mind as you were, as you were, as it was unfolding unfolding there that night before the end with the ovations and that Jen described beautifully.
[00:16:11] Judy Heumann: I mean, I was very proud of the work that, you know, Jimmy and Nicole had done, because it wouldn't have been the same film without the amazing qualifications. That they both had. One of the main things that people kept saying is why didn't we know this story? And ultimately after the fourth or fifth, however many showing where people were saying that I was like, well, you're a documentary filmmakers.
[00:16:42] Why didn't you want to know the story? Because it's not that things wearing out there, there wasn't a lot, but you know, the fact that people who are interested in these kinds of stories, Never really delved into finding more. So I think, you know, for some people, maybe they were somewhat embarrassed about the fact that they didn't know the story.
[00:17:05] And I think that was one of the important parts of why didn't, you know, the story.
[00:17:11] Jim Lebrecht: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But can I just say this, that there's so many other stories that are held by our community that have not been told yet. And partially that has to do with our community's access to be able to make these films.
[00:17:29] And, and it's certainly our hope that with the wonderful appreciation of ‘Crip Camp,’ that other filmmakers are going to get their films made, that people realize that there is actually a hunger for this kind of. Story and that it's entertainment and it's not what you think it is. And that's what we all want to see on, on the screen.
[00:17:56] Steve James: Yeah. Besides that, which, which would be great. And I, and I'm sure that this is going to help that, that to happen. What else do you want this film to do for the community? Or what is it doing or what, what, what have you, what are you saying? Since it's come out and I know you're up against this little thing called a pandemic, which, you know, doesn't make it easy for anybody with a film out this year, but, but what are your thoughts and hopes around that?
[00:18:27] Judy Heumann: I think one of the great parts that the film and the pandemic where there's nothing great about that, but people are home and are watching television and films more than they ever did. And so, you know, my experience is that. Many people are watching the film and people with and without disabilities. And I think for disabled people, it's very much owning the story and learning because you know, it starts out in the seventies and you know, many of the activists in the movement today weren't even born then.
[00:19:06] So I think it allows people to get a history, a sense of pride. Learning about who some of the leaders were at that time and looking at the value of stories, because I think that's really, what's important that those people telling their stories. And as Jimmy was saying, you know, they're 1 billion disabled people in the world.
[00:19:27] So there are 1 billion stories. They're not all equally of value, but there are so many different stories. I think, you know, the other point that Jimmy was making was. The need to have disabled people involved professionally and documentary filmmaking and everything else. So that one of the values of Nicole and Jimmy doing this together, I think also is to set an example and to learn from the community about who is doing what, what people want to do and people's qualifications.
[00:20:02] And I think also the importance of the industry itself investing in. Disabled people moving into the profession.
[00:20:10] Steve James: It's been great to talk to you, Jim, Nicole, Judy, I wish you the best with the film and the award season madness that you're in the middle of, but it's, I really enjoyed having this chance to talk to you guys about thanks so much for making this really terrific and important.
[00:20:28] Judy Heumann: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:20:30] Jim Lebrecht: Thank you so much. This is wonderful.
[00:20:37] Krista Smith: It’s evident through the work of the activist scene in Crip camp and many others that advancements in the fight for all civil rights can be accomplished through action. But our next documentary is proof that change and activism can also be approached through experimental means. The injustice surrounding the shooting death of 15-year-old Latasha Harlins at a South central Los Angeles store became a flashpoint for the city's 1992 civil uprising.
[00:21:05] As the black community expressed its profound pain in the streets. The Tasha's friends and family privately mourn the loss of a vibrant child whose full story was never in the headlines. Nearly three decades later, director Sophia Nahli Alison's ‘A Love Song For Latasha’ removes Latasha from the context of her death and rebuilds an archive of a promising life, lost oral history and memories from Latasha's best friend and cousin converge and a dreamlike portrait that shows the impact one brief, but brilliant life can have Sophia sat down for a conversation with filmmakers Dan Cogan and Farihah Zaman.
[00:21:51] Dan Cogan: I am Dan Cogan and we are here with Sophia Nahli Alison a filmmaker. And Farihah Zaman, who's going to help me with this moderation. Sophia, I want to say, first of all, I adored this film. I was just incredibly moved by it both by the subject matter and by the style and structure of the storytelling. And I had to go and research you as soon as I finished watching it.
[00:22:19] And I saw that you come from a photography background as well as filmmaking. And I wonder if you could talk about your photography and what led you into making a film like this?
[00:22:30] Sophia Nahli Alison: Yeah, first of all, I'm just so happy to be here with both of you. Thank you so much for being a conversation with me. I really want it to be a photo journalist.
[00:22:38] To me, that was the way that I could reconnect with the community. I'm originally from South Central Los Angeles. And my biggest dream was to work at the LA times and be able to just spend time in the community documenting. And I started to realize that there wasn't enough texture for me. I needed to hear the images I needed to fill the images I needed to see.
[00:22:57] Smell them. And so it just made sense that I would finally navigate towards filmmaking just deeply inspired by the classics like Roy DECA, Raba, Carrie Mae, Weems, Lorna Simpson, and was really inspired by what it meant as a black artist to put myself in front of the camera. So. Within some of my photography, I have a lot of self-portraits and that's helped me translate over to documentary because I wanted to make sure that I knew what it meant for me to be in front of the camera.
[00:23:27] Just as I expected interviewees are those that I'm working with to be in front of the camera, to understand the intimacy that was needed to understand the care. But, photography really helped me understand how intentional every frame had to be. And that has really helped me within filmmaking.
[00:23:44] Dan Cogan: So much of this film, it seems to me is about seeing the unseen in so many different ways.
[00:23:50] And stories of black women that are not told enough on the other sand stories of their lives and joy, as opposed to bad things that happen in some literal ways. I'm thinking of the abstract imagery. Well, sometimes representational, sometimes abstract of the, the murder itself, right? The way that you choose what you choose to show and not show.
[00:24:12] And then I noticed reading your director's statement. There's a quote that says trust the unseen. Hmm. And I wonder if you could just talk about that a little bit, because there's something about seeing and seeing things you can't see that seems to be so central to your work.
[00:24:26] Sophia Nahli Alison: Yes. Interesting. The unseen is how I have had to live my life just as a black woman, as an artist, as a queer person.
[00:24:36] Trusting what I couldn't see as tangible, not being able to trust a roadmap that I could make clear for myself or a blueprint that didn't exist. And I come from a family of artists, my mom's a storyteller, and so much of her work was inspired by African folklore. Even though we have this oral history that we pass down, maybe there are no photos, there's no video.
[00:24:58] We only have texts. We only have the language. So where else does, does this work live? What, you know, what other round does it exist in and really wanting to incorporate the spiritual aspect of what happens when the archive of black woman, what happens when the archives of black communities are erased or non-existent, or have been destroyed.
[00:25:18] And so really wanting to be intentional and understanding that. I want Latasha spirit to be a part of this process. And even though Latasha is no longer with us, understanding that by me, going into the community, you know, walking around her school, walking around the playground where she was, I could feel her.
[00:25:35] And so just really wanting myself to be present in those moments of even if I don't. Understand or see what this will be being patient enough for it to reveal itself to me. And for this, I just wanted to finally say what happens if we just believe the community, if we believe black woman, and that is all we need.
[00:25:56] Dan Cogan: Why Latasha Harlins out of the various things that you could have, you were very young when she was killed. What was it that brought her into your imagination as someone who you should tell this story about.
[00:26:09] Sophia Nahli Alison: Yeah, I was not living in Los Angeles at the time I was in North Carolina attending grad school and I was really homesick and I was just doing my own Google search on South Central, on black woman on black girls.
[00:26:22] And, you know, just in my research, I realized Latasha is a story that people don't know that much about and the L.A. uprising has always been associated with Rodney King and I really wanted to interrogate why, you know, the death of this young girl, it was such a catalyst for the riots, but so often people forget her.
[00:26:41] So often people just associate her story with those tragic, last moments with the trauma. Um, a lot of times people only have the visual of Latasha being killed because that, that video footage was so accessible at that time. And it broke my heart to realize that, you know, so much of the history of black women and black girls does exist in this realm of trauma.
[00:27:05] Does exist in, in, within the adults, suffocation of black girls here, we have this 15-year-old that is seen as a woman that's seen as a threat. And I really want it to interrogate that I want it to have some healing for the community. 2016 is when I began thinking of this story. And I just felt like there was this natural calling from Latasha to, to go on this journey and
[00:27:26] really be in conversation with who she was and to be in conversation with two of the women that were deeply affected by her death, because they were also 14 and 15 Shinese was 14 years old and Ty was 15 years old. And so I wanted to, I wanted to spend time with the women that were children when this happened.
[00:27:44] And so I just felt really called to this story that. Sounds like it, it had the ability to be completely erased.
[00:27:52] Farihah Zaman: That's actually a great, um, transition into what I wanted to ask. And I just wanted to say, I really liked Dan. I love this film. I think there's so much to unpack emotionally creatively. It's a very rich 20 minutes.
[00:28:04] And your reference to the fact that this was of the community, it was in collaboration with the community, as opposed to the idea of. Arriving getting what you need in some capacity or extracting in some capacity and a departure. I mean, I would love for you to dig into that a little bit more because there's such a balance of what you had conceived or had been conceiving of for some time.
[00:28:26] And then the unfolding of this relationship with Latasha's friends and family. Could you talk about how that process evolved?
[00:28:31] Sophia Nahli Alison: Yeah. I, you know what? I was so deeply inspired by the work of a filmmaker, Ligaiya Romero. They were a professor of mine. You spoke so much about decolonizing, about the care that's needed when interviewing people that have experienced trauma, I didn't want to.
[00:28:51] To interrogate them to the point where it felt extractive. I wanted them to know there's going to be Sophia. That's doing her job as a filmmaker, but there's also Sophia that really cares about your wellbeing and wants to hold space for you and wants to hold these emotions for you. But the other thing I did that was really decolonizing the process that I was always taught as a photo journalist and even early in documentary, never to do was I would show them cuts throughout the filmmaking process.
[00:29:17] Because, you know, care. I am as an artist saying, I'm, re-imagining what you've told me. And even though I'm coming with my own ideas, I want to make sure it's in alignment with. How you remember how you talked to let's about Latasha, how you share these memories with me and not just me taking this information and running with it and creating my own piece.
[00:29:38] I also want it to be sensitive to the fact that when they finally watched this film, they would see themselves crying. They would see themselves revisiting moments of trauma, and I wanted to make sure they were prepared for that.
[00:29:50] Farihah Zaman: Well, and the film, obviously, you know, is. Flooring grief, a grief that is decades old.
[00:29:54] And I think it's very, it resonates for a lot of people to see that that doesn't end. It simply evolves. Right? If you could speak to how you deal with grief through a creative process, for people who have experienced a violent death of a loved one, how it is radical to be asked, who was this person as opposed to, how did they die?
[00:30:13] Tell me about the details of their death. What was that like, just as community together, as people who were making something together to witness this grief being dealt with in this way.
[00:30:25] Sophia Nahli Alison: It was one of the most beautiful things. It was truly, it was truly healing. Just a small portion of the interview was about Latasha's deaths and the aftermath of that.
[00:30:35] But so much, I just wanted to know these little details of who Latasha was, you know, the memories that they had. Of her life and, you know, thinking about how Shinese just how she came to life and their stories. And he's told me a story of how Latasha chipped her tooth and she would walk around and still smile with this open mouth showing her tips too, that did not affect her.
[00:30:55] She was still so confident and so proud of herself. And so stories like that allowed let's hush that to live in her fullness. Even thinking about Ty's story within the swimming pool, you know, she has these boys bullying her, but what happens if we have an image of a young black girl. On her back, you know, surrounded by water in this serene moment of solitude.
[00:31:17] So always thinking about the juxtaposing images that would highlight black girls and their fullness that would have black girls surrounded by life that would have white girls surrounded by care. The reason that Soon Ja Du wasn't properly charged is because the judge also saw Latasha as a threat. So he understood why Soon Ja Du would react this way.
[00:31:39] So what happens in the film? We show the softness of black girls. We show the intimate, quiet moments that black girls experience, and we allowed them to exist as children rather than to be seen as adults. And so those were just the ways of, of holding grief and allow grief to exist. Allowing there, to make the moments where, you know, we cry when we're talking about what hurts us, but always making sure we come back to what were those moments that lifted us up.
[00:32:05] I always wanted us to remember. Latasha could have been any of us Ty an Shinese could have been any of these girls. I could have been Latasha. My friends could have been Latasha and just wanting this to feel so intimate. Like we are being invited into these, these memories we are allowing in for this moment.
[00:32:23] This was a secret language among black women and black girls. There were moments where I even revisit it, my own childhood. Another reason I felt. So connected with this story is because when I was 15 growing up in Los Angeles, my dad passed away. And so that became this like disruption to my childhood.
[00:32:40] But I spent, you know, my, my first 15 years of life in South Central. So Ty and Shinese had their, you know, their childhood disrupted in a different way with losing. A cousin losing a best friend. And here I was at 15 losing a parent. And what did it mean for 15-year-old Sophia to heal in this process for 15-year-old Sophia to revisit what South Central meant to me, what power I want it to hold space for myself as a young girl, how I wish to hold space for Ty and Shinese as a young girl.
[00:33:10] So this was about rebuilding the spiritual archive. What does it mean for us all to come together? All of us bringing our own bits and pieces and saying, this is the quilt we're going to make to help tell Latasha story.
[00:33:23] Farihah Zaman: You know, I would love for you to speak more about the idea of creating an archive, where it is missing as a radical act and an act against the imposition of being told what an archive should consist of, that it can be images that you create, and it can be, um, something that, that comes from the spiritual or emotional or the interiority of a black girl, as opposed to the image, the video that was taken of her murder.
[00:33:49] Sophia Nahli Alison: What happens when there is absolutely no footage, no anything. So, you know, I didn't have video footage to pull from, but I had these bits and piece of photography to pull from going to her high school and realizing that she's absent from her ninth grade yearbook. And why is Latasha absent?
[00:34:07] Why has the school not mentioned her? And so I think it's something that, that. Black folks are really wanting to interrogate, wanting to find new language, wanting to insert ourselves into the archive and understanding how radical it is for us to say, we did not have the agency to create this. So now we are going to, to rewrite this in ways that it needs to be rewritten.
[00:34:30] You know, it was scary to think. I get to, re-imagine a new image of Latasha that people will associate with her. This is not, you know, Exactly who Latasha is. This is not a picture of her, but this is. This is my offering. This is what I am saying. This needs to be the archives we offer to the community.
[00:34:50] This needs to be the archive that we use to replace the footage of her death. And it I'll never forget so many older black folks would tell me, thank you so much for not using the video footage in the film, because they had carried that trauma of seeing Latasha. Latasha killed. So, you know, that's just one way to disrupt and dismantle the archive.
[00:35:10] What happens if we take, we understand these images of trauma exists, but we also need something to counteract that we need something to be in conversation with it, it can't just, we can't just have this one image of a black girl's death to be all that there is for her. I want black girls to see this film and realize, Oh, I'm going to tell my story.
[00:35:31] I'm going to document my family. I'm going to archive. You know my existence, I'm going to, to write my narrative. I want you to know you hold the key to telling your story. You hold the key to, you know, building your own future to dreaming of your future, to re-imagining your past. And this is, I want this to be medicine for us.
[00:35:52] Farihah Zaman: There was a mural that was dedicated to the Tasha recently, right?
[00:35:55] Sophia Nahli Alison: The mural rebuild on Latasha's 45th birthday, which would have been January 1st, we had an amazing artist, Victoria Casanova create the mural for us. What's beautiful is it was erected at the actual youth center where Latasha Ty and Shinese played as children.
[00:36:11] This is where, this is where the pool is located, where Latasha jumped in the pool to help Ty. And so to see that. To know that people from the community will walk by this mural. We'll see it. We'll ask questions. We'll want to know more about what Latasha will remember Latasha. So wanting to make sure the community is always Latasha, always feels present in the community that, that part of the story and memory and history can't be raised.
[00:36:37] And then Ty and Denise are also going to have a celebration and remembrance of Latasha this March, which makes 30 years since her death. And so going back to time, I, you know, began this film in 2017, 2018, still working on it. And to think 2021, the film is finally living in a way where so many people can access it.
[00:37:01] And we are finally able to really have this, the community activated, you know, when it's her 45th birthday when it's the 30th anniversary. So that's been beautiful.
[00:37:13] Dan Cogan: Well, thank you. I think, uh, unfortunately it's time for us to wrap up, but it was great to get, to spend this time with both of you and hear more about the film.
[00:37:23] Thank you, everyone out there for listening.
[00:37:26] Sophia Nahli Alison: Thank you both so much for being in conversation with me or such thoughtful. I really deeply appreciate it.
[00:37:37] Krista Smith: That's our show. Thanks for tuning in Crip camp and a love song for Latasha or streaming on Netflix. For more head over to Netflix queue.com. That's Netflix, Q U E U E.com. And follow us on Instagram and Twitter. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, review, and share. Listen, in next time for more like this.