The inaugural episode of More Like This. Krista Smith and guest co-host Franklin Leonard take a deep dive into complicated bloodlines, diasporic dreams, and death. Leave room for seconds.
In this inaugural episode of More Like This, Krista Smith and guest co-host Franklin Leonard take a deep dive into complicated bloodlines, diasporic dreams, and death. Six-time Oscar nominee Amy Adams join us to talk her true-life portrayal of Bev Vance in Hillbilly Elegy; Director Remi Weekes discusses his refugee-inspired horror film His House; Kirsten Johnson details her father’s comically heartbreaking death in Dick Johnson is Dead; and The Crown’s very own Emma Corrin and Josh O’Connor discuss their iconic royal portrayals of Prince Charles and Princess Diana. A holiday dinner drama you won't soon forget.
[00:00:00] Krista Smith: Welcome to "More Like This," a podcast from Netflix queue, the journal that celebrates the people, ideas and process of creating great entertainment. I'm Krista Smith. I've spent over two 20 years interviewing some of the biggest names in Hollywood, but this is going to be a little bit different each episode.
We'll bring fresh new perspectives from across the entertainment industry. You'll get an inside, look into the stories behind your favorite films, documentaries, and series interviews with claimed actors, directors, writers, comedians, and musicians, as well as those. Just on the rise, you'll get the kind of access only Netflix can offer.
Oh, and one more thing. This is the best part. I won't be doing this alone. I get to collaborate with some of the best film writers, interviewers and experts in the business. My co-host this week is producer writer, podcast, host, and founder of the influential black list. The [00:01:00] fantastic Franklin Leonard. Hey Franklin.
Welcome to our very first show.
Franklin Leonard: Thank you for having me Krista, the lead off slot, a lot of pressure. Uh, I'm Franklin Leonard, the founder of the blacklist. Uh, if you don't know who we are, we're a company that identifies and celebrates great screenwriting, probably best known for our annual list of the industries and most liked unproduced screenplays, which will actually be dropping next month.
Uh, if you want to know more about us, check us out online, where blacklists with no vowels BLC, K L S t.com.
Krista: And Franklin you've been busy lately.
Franklin: It's true. It's true. Uh, yeah, no. Uh, recently joined the, uh, the masthead of vanity fair as a contributing editor, the board of American cinema tech, which was, uh, a really sort of overwhelming emotional experience for me.
Sydney Pollack, who I worked for in the last year of his life was one of the founders of American cinema tech. It's very
Krista: cool. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. Also, you're in London.
Franklin: I'm in London. Yep. Making a movie, hopefully top of next year. COVID permitting. We'll see how it goes.
[00:02:00] Krista: And Franklin it's also Thanksgiving tomorrow.
It's going to be tight-knit. We're going to be with our family and. What better time to be stuck at home with your family, then to watch some great content on Netflix.
Franklin: I feel like that is a way a lot of people are going to be spending their time.
Krista: Good way to relieve the stress. What have been some of the things you've been watching lately?
Franklin: Well most recently bingeing the crown, like seemingly everyone else on my Twitter timeline, Bravo and Bravo. Yet again, to everybody involved in that show, I'm looking at jingle jangle seems to be some light holiday entertainment, uh, with some great musical performances and choreography.
Krista: Yeah, no, there's a lot of great stuff coming up.
I mean, for my part, I learned a lot about chess and Queens gambit big. So I've been, I've been enjoying Queens gambit and then stressing myself out, watching social dilemma. So it's kind of been a little of both.
Franklin: I haven't gotten it yet Columbia, but I have finished all of Queens gambit. I like, I'm a hardcore searching for Bobby Fischer fan.
And [00:03:00] so the second I saw the trailer for Queensland, but I was like, yeah, that's for me, I will enjoy it. And I was not disappointed. Scott, Frank man did the thing.
Krista: Whether you're spending this Thanksgiving by yourself or with your family or significant other, I recommend you find time to relax on the couch and get lost in a gripping family drama, because nothing says Thanksgiving, like family, the drama, uh, especially this year, right?
Definitely this year, I'm going to be talking about a new film, hillbilly Elegy. I got to sit down with the star of it, Amy Adams. And as you know, Amy Adams, she's, I feel like almost a national treasure. At this point. She's been nominated six times, uh, for the Academy award, never won, uh, but as it mass and incredible, uh, slew of films, just a few.
I think about the Muppets master on the road, trouble with the curve, her obviously Lois lane and Matt of man of steel, American hustle, uh, arrival, nocturnal animals, [00:04:00] and now hillbilly Elegy. Uh we're once again, she plays a real life, character. She's JD Vance's mom, Bev. Uh, who's. A very unlikable character on paper, but it's Amy who brings such humanity to her and, and lens the audience of purview to, to, to sympathize with her, which is always one of Amy's great talents.
So here's my conversation with Amy Adams, Amy, it's a delight to see you and speak with you and. If our listeners can listen real close, you can hear nature because we're outside in your backyard. It's absolutely beautiful. I love I saw bunny earlier and I'm hearing the birds and the water nice up here.
Yeah.
Amy Adams: I think Colorado instilled the love of nature. So it's one of those things I'm always grateful to get to participate in.
Krista: Yeah, it's gorgeous. I'm just going to start by asking you about hillbilly Elegy. This obviously based on the best-selling book by JD Vance. It's [00:05:00] a New York times bestseller his autobiography.
You play as mother Bev. Uh, you've played real life people a couple times in your career, not overwhelmingly. So, but a couple of times, more than once. Talk to me about what grabbed you about this story or the script when it, when it came to you, what made you kind of. I think I'm going to step into these shoes right now.
Amy: I wasn't familiar with the book. I mean, I'd heard of it, but I hadn't read it when the script came across my desk, so to speak. Um, Ron Howard had sent me, I had gotten my number and he texted and asked if it was okay if he called. And I was, of course, I mean, of course I'm going to take Ron Howard's call.
And we had a really long conversation and Ron Howard and I are both very, um, chatty, I guess you could say. And. I think that's the first thing that pulled me in was, was Ron and also the sort of his way into the story through the family. So I bought [00:06:00] the book and read that, uh, soon after I had read the script and, um, was really fascinated with this family and their
story and, and mammo is played by Glenn close.
Oh, we both did it at the same time. We both had, ah,
Glen. I just love Glen. How,
Krista: how, how was it working with Glenn?
Amy: It's amazing. I'm always impressed when I'm working with people that I grew up watching, um, when they're still approaching it with so much fresh, they have fresh eyes and a fresh take and so much energy and her take on mammo is so organic and the amount of.
Uh, research he did, and the amount of video that she watched and, and just her energy for the character. It's so inspiring to me to see people approach a character, um, with that much [00:07:00] dedication. Yeah. And she's cool. And she does. I swear. Yeah. She's cool as shit, man. She is so cool. She seems really cool.
Really cool and funny and yeah, just genuine.
Krista: So I you're playing a real life characters. We established. Tell me about getting it. What got you into Bev? What was the thing that was at the shoes? Was it the hair? Was it the denim? Was it because some of the times people take an essence and, and. You know, I know J D has been quoted as saying, like, it felt like he saw his mother and grandmother come to life.
He felt like they were reincarnated in you and Glenn. Interesting,
Amy: because I've always worked from the inside out, meaning I really, really need and value everything you can put on the character. But if I can't find the character internally, nothing I put on is going to help me find it. So for me, it was really getting to know the family, getting to see their interactions.
But Vanessa script, really, it [00:08:00] challenged us because when we find Bev and mammo, often it's inside a very traumatic moments for J D you know, this is JDS recollection and point of view. So it's inside very traumatic moments. So it's constantly living in a state of, um, causing trauma to a child in a way.
And that was, that was hard. You know, that was the challenge. Um, I wasn't sure I was going to how I was going to, uh, Come in and out of that, you know, being a mother that was
Krista: tricky, knowing that you are, have to do what's on the script, knowing that your, this is only one second in one person's life. And then again, a writer's interpretation, a director's interpretation, an actor's interpretation.
You are three at the very minimum. You're three interpretations away from the real person. What was most important for you? To get right
[00:09:00] Amy: for her, her desire to be better. I think her true desire to be different and whatever kept her from being different that's what's underneath. And that sort of what drives her.
But I think her true desire was to be. The best mother, she could be the best nurse she could be. Um, life got in the way,
Krista: or we should say she's. Six years sober now.
Amy: She's six years sober. She's uh, last I heard, I didn't hear from her, but I did her through a source that she's actually helping addicts now and she's working, um, just paying it forward.
So she's doing great. And when I saw her, she was working on getting her nursing license back.
Krista: That's one of the things in the film that is so heartbreaking as you realize how sympathetic and how nurturing she is as a nurse, when she was a nurse, you realize how good she was at her [00:10:00] job. Very good at her job.
And that she was so smart. Yeah.
Amy: Put herself through nursing school with two kids, you know, that's not easy. I couldn't do it.
Krista: Right. And then just like you said, life happens. Um, well you were talking earlier about Ron Howard and, and. Like Chevrolet Apple pie and Ron Howard. I mean, I think of him is started on the Andy Griffith show.
Then happy days then went on to do splash and night shift and Apollo 13. And you know, most recently he did rush. I mean, he's, he's done so much work over the course of his, uh, career as a director and obviously as a producer and a mentor, what was your experience working with him?
Amy: I mean, there's Ron Howard, the person, and then there's Ron Howard, the director.
So what makes Ron Howard the person so amazing is he in and it bleeds over. So they, they bleed over. I like to tell this story because it kind of says it all Netflix has training before you start working to sort of [00:11:00] understand, like, it's like a PR protocol meeting, like, uh, here's our expectations and it's all pretty, you know, pretty standard.
And we get to the end and. The, the person running the meeting is like, okay, does anybody have any questions or comments? And when Howard raises his hand and says, yeah, um, I don't like name calling and I don't like yelling and I don't think either are necessary for a good product or good experience. And that is Ron Howard.
You know, he's, he's so gracious. He thinks everybody all day long, he's constantly thanking people, whether it's craft service or. The extras coordinator, the casting assistants, the PAs myself, he's constantly thanking people for showing up and being committed. So he really pays attention to the experience that people are having on set.
And that is a really, it's a beautiful thing. But as a director, he is challenging. Like he really is not going to leave a scene. And so he [00:12:00] has minded he's challenging in the best way I find he wants to really find. The layers and the depths of the scene and he likes to stay in it.
Krista: What's your favorite day on the job?
Like when you wake up and you know, is it the difficult scene? Is it the easy scene? Like what, what is the Amy Adams favorite day?
Amy: I think it's the scenes when we're all together. Um, we got to start the film out in the holler and we all filmed in a small town and North of Atlanta. We all stayed in a bed and breakfast and.
We wake up and go to set and see each other all day long and then come home and eat dinner together. Then sit out on the porch and either play games or tell stories or sing songs. So for me, it's not just the filming, but it was this amazing experience. We all got to have her about a week and it was that kind of cast sometimes cast get that you get that kismet where everybody comes together and, um, just it's [00:13:00] easy.
Krista: How's Glen singing voice. Cause I know you want to know. Haley.
Amy: Halye's is really good.
Krista: How's Glen's?
Amy: Really good.
Krista: Really?
Amy: Yes. She's really into like South Pacific. Yeah. Those are my favorite favorite nights
Krista: That feels very special. You've played some incredible characters. And I just think about the walking Phoenix and her and in the master and Phillip, Phillip Seymour Hoffman and the master.
Amy: Yeah, that was a special one. That was really special. Well, anytime I got to work with Phillip was special for me, so.
Krista: What was he like? Cause you guys did Doubt together too. How would you describe?
Amy: He was so interested in other people and you always felt seen with him in my experience of working with him was not only being seen as Amy, but when I was playing the character, I felt that his character was seeing my character and it made it [00:14:00] feel so real.
Um, everything with him felt so real and immediate. There's just something about him. Um, I guess that's the best way to put it as you felt seen good or bad? Sometimes, sometimes I'm like, Oh no, he can see me. Um, yeah, he laughed at me a lot, which was fair. Completely
fair. Yeah.
Krista: And, and what about Joaquin?
Amy: He's so tender, you know, It's funny. He always called me angry Adams, he and Philip and Paul Thomas Anderson and Spike Jones. I think they still only refer to me as angry.
Krista: It's a good nickname. I want to talk to you about your singing because you can't think of Amy without singing, at least I can't, without your voice and vocals, and obviously made famous in enchanted.
And I know there might be another, there's been rumors swirling that we're going to see an enchanted two or whatever it's called, but [00:15:00] that you might be doing that again. But yeah. Tell me how important that is to you and I, and I think also if you sing in the Oscars, like how crazy is that you sing two songs at the Oscars.
Amy: I'm only saying one. I wasn't trying to correct you. I just didn't want to oversell my accomplishments. Um, that was the scariest thing I've ever done. Yeah. I mean, career wise, that was the scariest thing. I remember having a panic attack backstage before it started and thinking what I am, why did I agree to do this?
Why didn't, why would I agree to do this? Um, but it was fun.
Krista: You've done that thing that is pretty rare, or it's not as easily accomplished as it looks, but you have maintained privacy and dare I say, even. Been boring for most Hollywood [00:16:00] starlets and
Amy: Well, being boring comes very easy to me. Krista.
Krista: Talk to me a little bit about that.
I know it's intentional and I know you can not be boring if you chose to not be boring. So I'm not going to believe that when you say that I'm going to demand more from you,
Amy: Um, I think it's that I'm boring. I'm just boring. Um, I'm basic. It always feels like it doesn't come ff as genuine to say that I don't like attention.
I feel like coming from a big family and having my husband and my daughter, I'm just always sensitive to the life that they chose. Versus the life that I chose. So knowing that I'm one of seven children and knowing that I'm the mother of a child and the, you know, the wife of my husband, I just value the intimacy of those [00:17:00] relationships so deeply that, um, I guess I've worked to keep them very close to me.
I don't know. I don't know how to put it. I think I'll go with, I'm
boring.
Krista: I have a whole theory on this. I feel like one, I think it is something and maybe I'm just projecting and no, one's really interested in me. They're interested in you, but I just did this. I think this does apply to both of us. I think when you grow up in a place like.
Colorado. And you're constantly every day, you're at the Rocky mountains and you're faced with this nature. That's overwhelming. You always know that there is something bigger than you. Yeah.
Amy: Yes. That feels right. What you're saying.
Krista: And I feel like that is something that I've always had, like. It's like, there's something so much bigger than me.
Just look at that. So I feel like you have a little of that, and then I've seen you do this thing where you disappear here in like in front of me or in front of whoever it is. And [00:18:00] I can see you walk in a restaurant as no one notices go to the bathroom and walk back in as Amy Adams and everybody notices.
And I think that's something that. You, I don't even know if you're doing it, but it's something that you know, how to do, you know how to disappear in your own person, just like you do in the roles that you play. And I've seen that.
Amy: It's a fascinating thing. I mean, I've seen people who innately have personalities that can not be hidden.
They just, it will never, they can never disappear. It's just not within them. And, and it's organic and innate to their who they are. But I think my nature is small. Like when I think about who I am, I feel very internal and I like to sit out with the trees and, you know, commune with nature and go for hikes.
Krista: What are we taking with us when, when we get that vaccine, it'll be really interesting.
Amy: Yeah. I've [00:19:00] realized, um, in sitting with my family and watching movies and really relying on our Netflix. On our television for, uh, family time and for entertainment, especially in the times when we were really meant to stay inside how much, how much value it does actually bring and how it can really transport people.
So I'm leaning into that right now. Just being grateful to be a part of something that I personally have really, really needed during these past nine months.
Krista: Amy. Thank you so much. Thanks for your time. Thanks for your backyard.
Amy: Of course, this has been so nice to hang with you now. It's so pretty back here.
Krista: I love what you do. I love you on screen. I love you in real life.
Amy: Thank you, I love what you do too. Thank you so much.
Franklin: So, Krista, what, what surprised you most. About your conversation with Amy?
Krista: That she insisted on the fact that she was boring. She saves all the excitement for, for the camera [00:20:00] on screen. That was, it was funny to, to have her articulate that. And I totally got what she was saying. One other thing that really surprised me was when she said that the scariest moment in her career was.
Right before she sang on the Oscars as she was standing backstage. And she was just terrified of that moment and kind of immediately regretting why did I agree to this? And that surprised me because I know Amy loves to sing. She loves to karaoke. It's so a part of who she is, and obviously an enchanted and an upcoming dear Evan Hansen, and hopefully within Shanta too, you know, she's really in her happy place when she's singing.
But I thought that was interesting even. Even the Oscar was can terrify Amy Adams. Franklin. I wanted to talk to you about something you tweeted recently, and I love your Twitter feed. If all our listeners out there, if you do not follow him on Twitter, you are missing out people. Not [00:21:00] only do you get educated, but you get to laugh and, uh, love it.
It's so it, it brings me great joy Franklin. So let me just, thank you. Publicly for your Twitter,
Franklin: You are very kind. Yeah. Hopefully it's both educational and entertaining.
Krista: Well, I love what you tweeted recently. Uh, when you said we need to talk about Netflix 2020 Q4: October 9th, 40 year old version, October 30th, his house, November 13th, jingle jangle, December 18th, ma Rainey's black bottom for black films for different genres.
Average rotten tomatoes score likely greater than 97%.
Franklin: Yeah. Uh, and I concluded that by saying absolutely staggering, uh, because it is, it's just, it's an unusual run of quality first and foremost, regardless of the background of the people making it. But it's just exciting that it's for black films for different genres in such a short period.
Krista: Totally. Couldn't agree with you more. Well, let's talk a little bit about. Remi Weekes, cause you got to [00:22:00] sit down with him.
Franklin: I did, um, look in case the holidays are not your thing or even if they are, and you want to spend your time with a significant other or your family and you want to be scared, um, and you know, add a little bit of a thoughtfulness and a sort of, you know, cultural relevance to your experience.
I can't recommend his house. Uh, highly enough. Um, in this film, a refugee couple makes a heroine escape from war torn, South Sudan, and they find themselves struggling to adjust to their new life in an English town that has, let's just say an evil lurking just beneath the surface that that may have followed them there.
We talked about a lot, right? How the project came together. Um, how. You know, he talks about the diaspora and the notion of immigration, um, and, and what home is. And, uh, it was a fascinating conversation. I'm really proud of it. I think enjoy it.
[00:23:00] There is a classic 1982 comedy bit. That that existed before you were born by Eddie Murphy about black people and horror movies, uh, where he basically jokes about how, how black, how you can't have horror movies with black people, because you know, the movie would just be like, you know, baby, this is beautiful.
We've got a chandelier hanging up here, kids outside playing. It's a beautiful neighborhood. I love it. And then there's a demonic whisper, "Get Out." And then the response is too bad. We can't stay. And I just thought it was remarkable. This film that you managed to create a dynamic where you could have a haunted house film with black people.
And it works.
Remi Weekes: I came with it to a kind of two-pronged approach. That was, um, one, one positive. It was that I found that the specifics of being an asylum seeker, Lilly, unique constraints, and actually could really. Will be a very fun twist on the [00:24:00] haunted house show, but also I came from it as you know, my family is from a level of hours until I come from the communities I grew up in is BEVA sense often from migrant communities.
And one thing about it in the UK, we often suspicious that the UK is not particularly comfortable with the idea of diversity. And so you'll. Torn in two ways, this of you that wants to, wants to try and assimilate and disappear. Um, and, but then this possibly that's the other side of you that kind of wants to stick your middle finger up on everyone.
That's actually, I'm caused to be who I am and then when I want to own it, I'm guarding. So in that way, and those sides of you always. Tufts and then each other. And I found it could be interesting when telling a story about two people who have a in new packs. And they're trying to, I guess, move on with that eyes.
I find it interesting that these two people could have these [00:25:00] opposite perspectives and have the, kind of the drama of the piece being that be consideration of those two feelings.
Franklin: Then let's talk about, let's talk about a very specific, uh, thing, which is upon arriving upon sort of getting out of detention and upon getting their house.
But first thing bull does the next morning is get a haircut. Yeah. It, that felt like such an explicitly black moment to me. Right. I think any black person, even one like me who hasn't had a haircut in over 20 years, uh, would recognize it as such. And I'm curious, what about the sort of details around them being specifically Sudanese than being specifically black?
Um, and then yet when Ryall is lost, she's marked by these sort of black teenagers. And I'm curious if you could just talk about sort of the. The articulation of blackness in the context of this movie, sort of being both, you know, generally diasporically black, but still [00:26:00] separate from the black, black, British experience as defined by that interaction with those black teenagers.
Remi: One thing that's always amazed me and I know they disappointed me somewhat is that even among. Can the people who you think we have a shared common experience that tribalism is still still foamed and lots of the, um, stories and that without the moment in this film, it's based on an optimist patch and positive, that's seen as reality when she's talking to, um, the group of kids, West pots, the inspired by some actual things that so much of the story
Wherein they come to Eva, UK, or America, and then they suddenly realize that you've been to black Americans or black, fresh people. That's still seen as immigrants. And that's those seen as. African so or lower than
Franklin: all right. One final question. And I couldn't, uh, sort [00:27:00] of let you go without talking about, um, the two stars of your film, really accepted exceptional performances, uh, from, from a shop.
And we'll me. I, if you could just talk a little bit about. Uh, how you found them, uh, and what the process of working with them was like, because I think that, I mean, it is essentially a two hander, but they re I mean, these are not easy roles. They require a wide range of charismatic, uh, performance. Uh, and I don't.
I can't think of a foot wrong. They put, so, uh, yeah, let's just talk about, let's just, let's just hype them up for a little bit.
Remi: They are both amazing and beautiful actors and human beings. I was so lucky and so fortunate about that with work with both the crew and, and Chopin with me and have them be so supportive and patient and.
Very very [00:28:00] professional and clever, um, when it came to developing the voles and performing, performing them on camera. Um, and they also both, uh, so different in terms of that technique and the nuts and bolts to how they create a performance. That's always fun to, um, observe them and upset the way. So they.
Get to a, to an emotional truth, the accident. And they also knew each other vaguely before they met. And so the chemistry was just like so easy. And so it was just okay. If in a moment it was BC after the no. Now my, my life so much easier.
Franklin: Yeah. I mean, from moment one, you believe that these are two people who love each other have been through hell and.
You know, I have no problem telling each other when they're wrong, but they're [00:29:00] committed to figuring it out, which there are a million ways that can go wrong, but it just works and Bravo to you for having the wisdom to choose them if nothing else, from getting those performance. So that was an editor down version of my interview with Remy weeks.
Uh, if you want the full interview about the making of his house, uh, you can read it@netflixq.com. Netflix Q U E U e.com. It's a good conversation. You want to check out the whole thing?
Krista: I am such, not a horror fan, but I have to say, I agree with you. I am so excited to see, uh, what Remy Weekes does. I think he is just an incredible filmmaker.
Franklin: Oh, a hundred percent. And not only that, I guess, got to give a shout out too to the two attitude lead actors of his house shall pay to receive and wouldn't be Masako, uh, stars. Just incredible performances. And, you know, you can't look away from them, which I think makes the horror that much more dramatic, frankly, because you care.
[00:30:00] Krista: Right. Well, I'm not really good at doing horror, but I can definitely do documentary. And one of the films we're going to be talking about is quite possibly one of the best documentaries that I've seen this year. And that's Dick Johnson is dead. Yeah.
This is a, um, uh, a truly unique. Documentary, um, you know, it balances the heartwarming with the McCobb cinema verite with the fantastical, uh, chuckles with some very, very harsh truths.
Um, Kristen Johnson plays out scenarios in which her father suddenly. And often gruesomely, uh, meets his maker, uh, as a way to emotionally prepare herself for his inevitable demise. Uh, as you can imagine, it is an intensely personal project, much like for 2016 film camera person, which comes up a few times in this interview and I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it.
Um, and it's a film that will sit with you long after, [00:31:00] uh, You've watched it. Um, and fortunately, uh, as an interlocutor director, Mike Mills is no stranger to intensely personal projects and grappling with the death of parents, mills and Johnson connected before her work began on Dick Johnson is dead and here we have them connecting after the documentary has made its way out into the world.
Speaking about the filmmaking process of this again, unique project and a whole lot more.
Mike Mills: So to get to like this kind of gritty. How did you make it? Like, obviously you made this agreement with your dad. Obviously you had some things you knew you wanted to fell, but how much did you. Created as you went along or how did the process of the whole filmmaking?
Kirsten Johnson: Yeah, it was, um, pre Swami Nathan, when she was still at Annapurna who introduced us and she had just cold called me about camera person and sort of blew my mind to what she said about. Um, what the film meant to her. And then she said, are you trying to make anything new? And I was like, I'm trying to make a crazy film with my [00:32:00] dad where I want to kill him over and over.
And he was like, did you know that I was the producer of jackass? And I was like, I did not. I'm so excited. Um, And she said, you know, there's somebody I think you should talk to. And it's Mike. And so I called you and I also called Nash Edgerton, who you introduced me to 10 and, um, who has been a stunt person.
Right. And we had these amazing conversations about, you know, How do we do vulnerability in cinema? Like, how is it possible? And then how do we, how do we pretend that vulnerability isn't happening in cinema? And so it's just super cool for me that I'm catching you at the beginning of the process. And now, as you say, as the film, like enters its life, you know, what we were trying to do is like, leave all this space in this movie for people to like, Do their own thing cry for their own reasons.
Like, I don't know. I, you know, I don't know why you [00:33:00] were crying that as my dad would say, when the eyes are dry, the Oregon's cry. So you did something beautiful for your body.
Mike: It was fully yogic. I mean, both my parents are gone and. It was some of the more quiet scenes like your dad and the soup later on, like your dad's declined.
Like I'm very familiar with that. And the, the very quiet things that you caught, um, um, your dad's napping like that. I know all about that. This thing that you do, they, we got a little bit of an camera person is you're there and you're filming. You're having a conversation. You put down the camera and you touch the person.
And the camera is like shooting the floor. Like when your dad's talking about like, and now, um, I'm going to cry now and now experience the same thing over again. You were talking about your mom in the Seattle house and he says, I'm sorry. And, uh, but to me, it's like going to the best shots in cinema that the camera is like [00:34:00] shooting the floor over there.
You can still hear the sound, this action of you operating the camera and then going around it or putting it aside. But keeping it on. Yeah.
Kirsten: You know, I mean, this thing about like, breaking, like trying to break these edges, right? Like these edges that we pretend in and, and say like, we're all bodies here, you know, like even now in this pandemic time where there's so many of us who can't touch the people we need to touch.
Right. Like, you know, it's like, and like, I mean, You know, I want to hug you after, like you responded to my film in this way. Right. And connecting to what it has been to be with my dad through this process. And yet we can't in this moment, but cinema does cinema has these capacities, right. Where somehow, you know, Like, as my head becomes bigger, I can become the wizard of Oz, you know?
Like, and, and so that's what [00:35:00] camera person sort of like freed me and all of these ways and, and, and allowed me to even see myself in ways. I didn't understand myself. I really like, I wanted to say to death, like, I'm sorry, you can't have this one. And I think cinema might be able to, like, we do this in camera person, the wonderful editor.
I work with nails banquet, or like, did this cut where my mom's in, her ashes are there on the screen. And then boom, he cut to footage of her alive. I have that like, Oh, cinema can do these crazy things. So like we push it into crazier and crazier territory maybe by doing that, we can defy time. Like. We can defy genre.
We can defy death and defy dementia like that. I can like reassemble my father so I can show you him looping in these like tiny loops, but then I can expand him through the slow motion of the [00:36:00] dance scenes and his smile to last longer
Mike: What is your take on fabrication. And, um, and the way, like when your dad was playing the clarinet, whatever, and the.
Backup singers, like their crazy look on their face. I was like, Oh, this is like, monstrous is, it's like a grotesque, right? Yeah. So that's hard to do. I find that as a director to like, keep your own DNA really strong and in such different spaces.
Kirsten: Hmm. I mean, you asked me earlier about process, right. And so.
There are like several really strong intentions that we brought to this film. And we brought it as a group of people who have all worked together before, um, producers who, you know, love me. And I love them. And an editor who, you know, I've worked with, um, just in a really deep way. And the wish was okay, this movie teaches us how to make it.
Yeah, we will not know. Anything about it, we'll do [00:37:00] processes that you usually do at the end, at the beginning and the middle. So we edited very early. We went into the sound mix extremely early and tried out, okay, let me hear a different tone for what this death could feel like. Let's do the trip. So it's like really comical let's do the trip.
So it like gut punches. You let's hear the trip. So you're here, the head knock against the concrete and then, and then you'd see like, okay, what happens when that does that thing? So, cause I Al my worry always was, is like tone. How do we manage tone in this film? Right. Because it's tonally all over the map.
Like dementia and like love and like relationships. So how can you really actually be in all these different tones? Um, so it was always decided to be a back and forth and then back and forth between what we know, what we don't know between, [00:38:00] um, the what is and what will be, right. So my father is alive. He will be dead.
Uh, you know, there is a moment when we'll look back on this and we will realize like, Oh, this isn't the way he died. Right. But. All of those documentary steps or documentary steps that we as documentarians know, like every single day you shoot. If you're out there. Some crazy thing happens. That is so beyond your imagination, you know, this like, right.
You know, like when you are out filming the young children that you were filming, like people say amazing things and that resonate with what you're thinking about. And then suddenly they can flip the whole movie.
Mike: I had this real sense of like, whoa, that was real. Right. And that was such a nice relief in this world was it's, uh, it's become so gaseous and toxic as I live in a smoke-filled LA, but like, it's like, it's like what is going on?
And, and this sort of anxiety of [00:39:00] formlessness. And so you broke so many farms, you broke so many rules. You were like, I thought a lot of Agnes Varda is documentaries. Yeah, family personal. That was like, well, that was like a rock that Kristen just threw through my screen and sitting on my bed with me now.
And it's so nice to have a rock that's like kind of real and real and all
that.
Kirsten: Oh, I got a love it, but I can like throw a Boulder through the screen at you. Like it's just the beach ball, Mike, you just throw it right back to me. It's a disco ball. It's a disco ball of mirrors is what it is.
Mike: Thank you, Kristin. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Like I, that was so life-giving.
What a rare thing experience, right? How rad, um, let's all give it the love that we can. I think it fully deserves it and it just, yeah. So, uh,
Kirsten: Mike, you're the best.
[00:40:00] Franklin: It's interesting. I've been reading a lot about the early history of cinema, uh, lately. And there's a quote, uh, from a French newspaper. I don't speak French that this is the translation, but it literally is from the day after the Lumiere brothers sort of had their first ever like paid. Cinema thing at the grand cafe, uh, on December 28th, 1895.
So a hundred and twenty-five years ago. And this cause that said, and I'm going to quote here, you know, we have already corded and reproduce, spoken words. We can now record and playback life. We will be able to see our families again, long after they're gone. And it was sort of wild sort of thinking about this interview in the context of that and sort of how Kiersten has used the medium of film to preserve her father.
And prepare her, uh, for the reality that he won't be here anymore. And that in another way, all of us will not be here at some point in the future.
[00:41:00] Krista: I it's, it's beautifully said, you know, uh, having been the winner of this award two times over, I lost my mom a very long time ago on my, my dad over a decade ago.
It, I felt it so. Heartwarming too, to just share. And that experience with her listeners, please watch it. It, there is more joy than sorrow in it. It is just such a cathartic ride about like I said earlier time and life and death and what we choose to do in between. Speaking of time and to a very specific time.
And Franklin and I have already, you know, discussed this earlier, but that is season four of the crown. This era of the crown is for me, my sweet spot having come up in, in vanity fair during the demise of the princess, Diana and Charles, his relationship, I feel like at vanity fair, we lived and [00:42:00] breathed, uh, the Royal family.
What's great about it is that it. Like we were saying earlier to new young actors that are fantastic. Josh O'Connor and Emma Corrine play Charles and Diana. And we are lucky enough to get them to sit down for a chat, uh, with Netflix is, uh, Gina Moore Barrett about the pressures that come with playing Charles and Diana and.
Also the particulars of, you know, nailing that Royal accent and how they're similar to the characters they play. And plus a few plans for petty theft.
Gena-mour Barrett: Is there a level of pressure that comes with all of the anticipation around this particular story? And are you shitting yourself basically?
Emma Corrin: Yeah.
Currently, um, yeah, there is such a, there's such a, obviously a, such a high level of pressure that comes with. These roles, you kind of have to remind yourself that this is, um, fictional the is fictional. And, um, you know, as Peter Morgan storytelling, we are telling [00:43:00] we are storytellers and these are characters.
Um, just as much as they also see real people. And for me, I think that was a really important distinction in the whole, um, process of doing research and getting to grips with Diana was the, um, You know, the research was really helpful, very informative, but actually when I got the script and when I started working with, um, Polly Bennett who helped with movement and, you know, doing more work on like physicality and psychology, I suppose that was.
Yeah, it kind of helps leave all the whole air and the, the voices and the like
Gena: that's talk about the royal accent. It's arguably the poshest accent on earth. Basically. I'm just going to ask how long it, how long it took you both to get the accent down because it's...
Emma: I don't have a royal accent. Yeah. It was so different, but she does have a very distinctive voice, but, uh,
Josh O’Connor: well, it's very, also, it's very different.
Charles is very different. They're all quite different. So like the Queens is sort of mad. I mean, it's totally unique. Phillip's and Charles-- Phillip's comes from a sort of German [00:44:00] influenced, um, sort of accent as well. And then Charles is like,
Gena: I've tried to recreate it. I'm from South London. It's just not happening.
I can't do it
Josh: I but you could. Can I teach you something
Emma: It's the way you move your mouth when you talk.
Josh: You're going to get it right now.
Gena: Okay.
Josh: So what you need to do, try saying... this one I was taught. I'm not like claiming to be the best at teaching people to do [inaudible]. If you say "ears." So say ears.
Gena: Ears.
Josh: Okay. Now, just imagine that I've just asked you a question that needed the answer. Yes
and say ears, so you work for Netflix?
Gena: Ears.
Does that sound like a yes? That did not sound like a yes.
If I say, is, posh-up
Emma: Ears.
Josh: So instead of, yes, you just say "ears."
Gena: On a scale of one to 10, how similar are you actually to your characters and what you've learned about them?
Emma: Well, josh always has a boiled egg with every meal.
Josh: Neither of us can be that similar. Can we? Because we don't live in a different bill palace, [00:45:00] we're pretty different.
Emma: There's a bit where Diana is out with her mates. Um, after the proposal and they're like go out and they're dancing.
And that day of filming felt incredibly close to what I actually do with my mates. That was also interesting because it was kind of like, wow, this is what she, this was her life before it changed. And that was quite emotional. Yeah. Realization.
Josh: I don't think I'm anything like Prince Charles, to be honest, the character or the real man, I think, um, quite different.
Cheers to being a great actor, do you know what I mean?
It is. Completely different. [inaudible]
Gena: During my research of the two of you.,I came across an interview with you, Josh from last year in which you said, and I quote, I've got my eyes on something and I'm going to steal it at the end of series four. It's a paperweight with Prince Charles head in it. Did you steal it? I just want to know I've got really invested. Did you steal it?
Josh: I didn't and it's such a tragedy. I'm glad you brought that up. I had plans to steal it.
Gena: Yeah, I was invested in it.
Josh: And I've still got plans. The problem [00:46:00] is that at the end of series Four, we had to finish like two or three days early because of COVID lockdown. I had a plan ready. I knew roughly where that paperweight was going to be. It might even still be there now.
Emma: It sounds like that paperweight had other plans.
Josh: I knew where he's going to be at what time.
Um, no. I had plans to steal him it's and I haven't. Uh, been able to carry out those plans. Right. But who's to say whoever gets cast was never gets cast as Prince Charles and series five and six. Mm. Who's to say that I might not reach out to them and say, yo hit me.
Gena: I wish I had stolen it for you. And I could have been like, 'well, actually!'
Krista: I am obsessed with them. I, when Emma, as Diana is. In [00:47:00] Buckingham, palace, roller skating, and those plaid pants. I just lost it. I won, I rewatched that over and over again to girls on film. I couldn't take it. The games, a Dipsy dupesy, whatever they were playing.
Franklin: Ibble Dibble.
Krista: Ibble Dibble. Thank you. Have you played that yet? Now that you've been in London?
Franklin: I have, I have not played that. Uh, despite my time in London, uh, I definitely Googled it to, to learn the rules cause that's the kind of person that I am, but, but I'm not ready. Not quite ready for the Balmoral test yet.
Krista: Huh. And Gillian Anderson is just on next level as Margaret Thatcher, but what, what have you been loving Franklin?
Franklin: It's really a question of what I haven't been loving and I can really can't come up with anything. But Josh and Emma are particularly remarkable in these two roles, which as young actors has to be beyond. Stressful and incredibly high stakes for them. And if I have to just applaud them for given the stakes of it, delivering at the level that they do.
Krista: Yeah, I would agree that is not too much pressure. [00:48:00] Everybody feels like they know --it's their diana. It's not, you know, it's not anybody else's, there's such odd possessiveness around these, these real life people. And in turn these characters, it's, it's. Delicious. All right. Well, I can't believe we are already at the end of our first episode, but here we are.
And at the end of every interview, uh, for my other podcast Present Company, I like to ask my guests for advice that they have for people entering the entertainment business. So I'd like to share with you some words of wisdom from Amy Adams.
Amy: Don't try to change the innate nature of who you are to become something you think they want.
Learn yourself, learn your craft and have fun. I would go into auditions and had planned the readings so that I was acting in the same nature of the person who I know they wanted for the part to be like, Oh, if this is what they want, then I'll just do that. [00:49:00] Um, but it didn't work clearly. And it wasn't until it was really when I.
When I started playing slightly quirky characters, which is probably closer to my organic nature, did it start to click in? So I guess that's why I lean into, like, let's spend more time learning who you are and learning your craft than trying to please others.
Krista: You know, it's so interesting. What Amy talks about.
It's one of those things that's so hard to be you, especially while you're figuring out who you are, but I really think it's true certainly in this profession.
Franklin: Yeah. I think that's right. And I think also to allow. Who you are to change, but to be sensitive and make sure that that's still who you are, right?
Like it's, none of us are static. There's always a dynamism to it. Um, so you kind of have to be constantly listening to yourself about who you are and then living in that otherwise, you know, [00:50:00] going in another direction that that's the path to misery in my experience, but it takes a long time to realize that.
Krista: Well, Franklin, I'm so excited that you are able to join me today. It's so great to talk to you and to hear your thoughts on everything really appreciate your time.
Franklin: Thank you for having me. It was delightful
Krista: And I'm going to track you down and have you on again. So be prepared.
Franklin: I would be honored.
Krista: Well, that's our show and you don't want to miss next episode when Amanda Seyfried joins us to talk all about MANK-- plus a bunch of other fun conversations.
All the films and series discussed today are streaming on Netflix for more on Amy Adams, Remy Weeks and Kirsten Johnson. Head to Netflix, queue.com and follow us at Netflix queue on Instagram and Twitter. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, review, and tell your friends to check out the podcast. Listen, in next time for more like this. [00:51:00]